April 1, 2012

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Working for a Taiwanese IT company

My first job in Taiwan was quite an experience, something that opened my eyes in many ways, but also brought me to my own limits. I want to share my experience with you in order to give you an insight into a completely new world - Taiwan's working environment in a medium-sized IT company. I will talk about how it was working with Taiwanese colleagues for the first time, how I suffered, how I faced challenges, how I adapted, how I exceeded my own expectations and at last left due to mental and physical exhaustion. It was definitely a 1 year long roller coaster ride for me, I learned a lot, but I would not want to go through something like this again.

How it started

When I came to Taiwan a little over a year ago, I had no idea what I should do here. I knew, that I wanted to be with my wife, but career-wise, I had no plans. As a linguist and polyglot, I saw myself in a local company, that's doing business with Europe, where my language skills could be of good use. Other than that, I was pretty flexible. And so it happened, that a young and growing IT company contacted my wife, who published my Chinese resume on 104.com.tw, Taiwan's most popular employment website. An interview was arranged a week later in an industrial area in Eastern Taipei. The run down exterior of the building didn't promise anything good and since I was so green, no alarm bells were ringing at that time. The interview started with an IQ test, which I finished with all seriousness, despite later realizing, that it served no purpose. The sales manager who interviewed me gave me a tour around the cubicles and in that moment I felt my chances were looking pretty good. I was right - three days later they called my wife and told her they wanted me. I agreed to (what later turned out to be) a modest salary. But my lack of any experience in the field they hired me prevented me from claiming more. At that time I was very eager to work and earn something in order to not depend on my wife's money anymore. And so I landed in IT, I was in charge of business development and account management in several European markets, but with completely no experience - it was scary in a way.

Two divisions

Our company was divided in two business divisions. I was working for the smaller one, where it was much harder to sell the product, because the niche market was very specific and the competitors from Taiwan and Europe were far ahead of us. It was interesting, that our main product was quite famous in certain IT circles around Europe, but our side product was the complete opposite. We were generally known for good quality at a good price, but the product I tried to sell was having quality issues and compared to competition, it was too expensive. Of course it took me a couple of months to realize all this, because I was so new in this field. Nevertheless, I have learned fast. There was no formal training, but since a few new salespeople joined around the same time as me, we organized ourselves and studied the product together. I was lucky to befriend a very experienced colleague, who later became my best friend. Her over 10 years working experience in IT was a treasure and her flawless English was a bridge between me and the rest of the company. Most of my colleagues spoke English, because our key markets were in Europe, USA and Japan. However, the joint meetings were usually in Chinese and my best friend translated the most important things for me. Now I understand a lot of spoken Chinese, but in the beginning it was close to zero.

My observations

Keep in mind, that the things I will be mentioning below are specific for the company I have worked for, some of them might be true for other IT companies and have a general quality, but most of them are very particular for my old company, which was oftentimes seemed as extremely crazy even by Taiwanese standards.

• Working overtime is normal

It's pretty common in Taiwan's IT to work overtime for no pay, it's a cultural thing (it's called 加班 or jiābān). What an European like me understands as an exploitation of workers, breaking common ethics and laws, a lot of local managers see it as a reasonable expectation. By working overtime for free you show that you care for the company, you show engagement and enthusiasm, that will make your manager appreciate you more. "Working long hours" equals "working hard" in the traditional mindset of Taiwan's managers, who are usually of the older generation. Reality is different: A lot of Taiwanese, who stay longer in the office, are pretending to work. They are usually on Facebook or chit-chatting with other colleagues, they are too tired to focus (and who could blame them). The productivity in such companies is very low and because there are so many in Taiwan, who do so, it puts the whole country in that light. There are companies, who demand, that nobody leaves before the manager leaves, as you shall not work "less hard" as someone of higher rank than you. The law acquires 8 hours at work, but you basically stay 9 hours at the office, because 1 hour is meant as a lunch break. Add the common 2 hours overtime and maybe another 1 hour spent commuting and you realize, that on weekdays 12 hours a day are used for your job. After you come home, you are naturally very tired, time for a good quality private life is nearly impossible, unless you posses superhuman powers. Commonly, you will have to appear in your office between 9 and 9.30, you will have the right to leave between 18 and 18.30. A lot of Taiwanese move close to their working place, so that they don't need to waste a lot of time commuting (in our company, if you arrived at 9.31, a full hours pay was deducted from your salary). I used to work overtime a lot at first, because I didn't want to stick out as a foreigner, even though I had nothing to do. Later I usually stayed longer, because I was truly busy and the time difference between Europe and Taiwan affected my working time (for example, when it was time to leave in Taiwan, European partners just started their day and begun to email various requests to me). I was the busiest between 18 and 20h, at a time where I supposed to be home and taking a rest. You can not imagine how crazy I have seen these working hours in the beginning and how normal it has become for me a year after. I was a lot of times among the last ones leaving the office.

• Communication problems

The biggest problem you can face as a foreigner in a Taiwanese IT company is the communication. If you're not fluent in Chinese, you will need a kind colleague to translate for you the most important things. But even, if you're speaking and understanding Chinese well, communication will still be a problem, because Taiwanese communicate in a very different way. I give you an example: I asked my English speaking colleague to ask our Chinese speaking product manager about whether our product could have a certain feature. The answer is supposed to be either "yes" or "no". But to my surprise, they were talking for 10 minutes, before she came back to me and said: "No, we can't do it." Generally, things are discussed for too long without a real point - it's almost talking for the sake of talking. This is quite tiring for me, although I understand, that it's a cultural difference. Every week we had 4 to 5 hours long meetings discussing current issues. It was mostly a complete waste of time, it could be done in less than an hour. Our division boss used to have long incoherent meaningless speeches, full of self praise and unrelated nonsense - he was able to talk for one full hour in one breath. My colleagues and I were sitting there all annoyed and hoping it will end very soon. Few were really listening, most were replying emails or chatting on Skype... And that's how we wasted hours and hours every week, leaving these excruciating meetings exhausted to the bone and usually haven't advanced a bit in regards to solving issues (and there were many). It was generally very tiring for me to observe how much was discussed and how little was made afterwards.

• The cubicle becomes your new home


This is how your working environment most likely will look like | photo source.
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Taiwanese IT companies can be very messy sometimes, because a lot of people are placed in one big room. Usually all kinds of stuff is stored or thrown everywhere, products are constantly tested, disassembled and reassembled. In my case, the salespeople, product managers and engineers all sat very close to each other. Everyone had his own cubicle with a phone and laptop. The sound of running server fans, the constant mouse-clicking and typing is something very typical for such environment. And there's a big difference between the technical people such as engineers and product managers and the business oriented people such as the sales. A good manager needs to be a bridge between these groups, but unfortunately, I wasn't lucky enough to experience that. It's interesting that a lot of management's offices have transparent walls (usually consisting of glass) and their door is usually open (this is different from my country). I'm not sure, whether this is designed with the intent of intimidating the workers, because they see the boss at all times (and believe me, Taiwanese can be scared shitless around the boss) or is it just a "good feng shui" kinda thing? No idea, but I'm sure it serves a good purpose. See some more photos of a typical Taiwanese office.

Vocabulary

• CEO (title) | 執行長 | Zhíxíngzhǎng
• GM (title) | 總經理 | Zǒng jīnglǐ
• VP (title) | 副總經理 | Fùzǒng jīnglǐ
• HR manager | 人資 | Rénzī
• PM | 產品經理 | Chǎnpǐn jīnglǐ
• Research & Development | 研發 | Yánfā
• Engineer | 工程師 | Gōngchéngshī
• Salesperson | 業務 | Yèwù
• Sales manager | 業務經理 | Yèwù jīnglǐ
• Sales assistant | 業務助理 | Yèwù zhùlǐ
• To go to work | 上班 | Shàngbān
• Office | 辦公室 | Bàngōngshì
• Cubicle | 位置 | Wèizhi
end of vocabulary
• Of hierarchy and losing face

My Taiwanese colleagues generally didn't dare to challenge or question our manager, even if almost everybody knew, that he is a incompetent and mean-spirited boss, who got the job only, because he had connections and BS-ed himself into the position. I tried to question some things he was saying in the beginning, because he himself offered us to do so. I thought: "Cool, it's like in Europe, we can discuss openly, argue and clash ideas and find the best solutions!". Unfortunately, I was so wrong and the only one eager to do it - and I was a complete junior. In contrast, all my senior colleagues were quietly nodding. I quickly realized why: Even, if a manager says you can openly discuss or question his ideas, don't do so! He most likely means the opposite, especially if he belongs to the old generation. What he expects is that everybody agrees with what he says. By asking questions, that would make him appear incompetent or wrong, you would cause him to lose face (丟臉 or dioūliěn), something that has to be avoided in Chinese culture at all cost (it's a taboo). I believe, that due to my initial eagerness to discuss and question things, I was quickly marked by him as a potential troublemaker, which resulted in his future taunts, verbal attacks and badmouthing, something that made me eventually leave the company. Meetings in Europe are usually short and concise, openly discussing problems and challenging the boss with good arguments is a lot of times very common. The opposite was true for the company I worked for. Respect for hierarchy, blind subordination and keeping face were the most important aspects of working in that department. It was no wonder, that we had such hard time solving issues, because people fumbled around and never dared to speak out the truth - it was always wrapped in a layer of meaningless verbal cushions meant to soften the message. Taiwanese tend to laugh, when they mention a problem in order to create a less tense atmosphere? No idea, but it always baffles me, when I see it. It was obvious to most of us who's fault it was, that some things were terribly wrong (division manager, product manager, R&D head), but nobody dared to point it out directly, because all of them were the type that would feel they lost face. And so the problems kept piling up and it's getting worse and worse by the month. I'm very happy I have left at this point. There were some colleagues, which were exceptional and found the courage to speak out directly in recent months, but the effect was still very small. They are among those, who might be the next ones leaving.

• Fake harmony and types of colleagues

In our company there was also a tendency to create something I would call "fake harmony" (called 假和諧 or jiǎ héxié). I have to say I had some very good colleagues, who were part of the reason I stayed as long as I did - if it weren't for them, I'd probably leave much faster. They are now my friends and I can trust them blindly. But being the exceptions they are, they only prove, that you better be careful who you trust, if you join a Taiwanese IT company. Rather be overly careful than careless. Everybody is nice at first, but after a while you realize, that they are several types of Taiwanese colleagues, allow me to use animals as an analogy for that:
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  • The sheep

    The sheep is the type of colleague, that is always quiet and avoiding trouble, shying away from taking risks, trying to prevent open arguments. He or she will never complain, never speak out openly, seldom gossip and just let others make big decisions. Sheep are waiting for orders and instructions, have no opinions and like to do routine jobs and follow. Such colleagues will be harmless to you, but most likely not interesting for anything beyond the usual zao an and bye.
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  • The dog

    The dog is the type of colleague, that will always be abused or used by the management or by other colleagues, but not complain, nor fight back. They will be loaded with jobs, working overtime a lot, but not respected. They will never really dare to make a change. I've seen a lot of them in my old company. It was a sad image, because it showed the ugly side of Taiwan's working culture. I usually stay away from these types of people.
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  • The turkey

    The turkey is the type of colleague, that is constantly bitching about how it's so unbearable to work in the company and how they are about to leave. But aside from the never-ending complaints, he or she never does anything and after a while it becomes very tiring to listen to them. Some Taiwanese definitely lack the courage to make a change. It's understandable in many cases, as it's gotten harder and harder to get a decently paid job, nevertheless, it can also be used as an excuse. These types of colleagues are interesting at first, because you can bitch with them, but they can become tiring after a while.
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  • The rat

    The rat is the type of colleague, that will backstab you the moment he can benefit from it. This is the type, that collects information, spreads gossip and tries to be close to the boss, badmouthing you to him and that gives him or her a sense of power. Rats will also do dirty jobs for the boss in order to get credit and appreciation. There are usually very few of such people in every department, everybody knows who they are and what they are doing, but they kinda get away with it. And some people like to be close to the rats, because when they climb up the leather, they can benefit from being their allies. Definitely stay away from such colleagues as far as possible.
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  • The monkey

    The monkey is usually smarter than the boss, but doesn't always show it openly. He or she knows, how to create groups within the department and lead by good example, create trust and teamwork. Monkeys are intelligent, bold, but not confrontational. They work behind the system and solve problems without the management's interference. They don't look for their credit, they find it more rewarding to be respected by colleagues and customers, that's what drives them. But they usually move to other companies very fast, if it becomes unbearable. Be close to these types of colleagues.
Personally, I used to be every type at a certain stage except a rat. During my last weeks I was a monkey.

• Gossip culture

Compared to where I come from, I've noticed that Taiwanese really love to gossip (it's called 八卦 or bāguà, same as this). Everybody was using Skype during work (which is in Taiwan pronounced "Skypee"), chatting virtually all the time. Most of it was not related to particular issues at work, it was usually a tool for gossiping and bitching. I admit I was slowly dragged into this particular aspect of Taiwan's IT work culture and it became part of my daily routine (I was definitely not like this before). I have seen first hand how quickly gossip spreads across the departments or even out to ex-colleagues, who are now working for competitors. A lot of false rumors are also part of this, which is sometimes very annoying. Interestingly, my ex-colleagues were also very curious about each other's private matters, sometimes a little bit too nosey for my taste (for example: At one time someone suggested we should all share private pics with each other on a big projector in the meeting room. I didn't partake, but they were pushing me for few days. I stood firm and didn't share). Of course there are always a lot of colleagues, who are different and seldom chat online or care about gossip. Those are usually very busy.

• Lunch box culture

It's common in Taiwan's IT companies to order lunch boxes or 便當 (bièndāng, bendon) together. There are services, that will deliver it to the company, if a certain minimum order quantity is reached. A popular website is Din Ben Don. Biendang is also commonly ordered in the evening, so that people don't need to leave office for dinner. Some companies treat the employees with free ones, if they stay at work over a certain time. I will never forget that smell of warm rice at around 6 pm every day, that filled the whole office. That must be a smell common for many companies in Taiwan. It's also common to order drinks together, such as bubble tea, which are then delivered to the office. Another thing I've noticed, is that Taiwanese colleagues like to bring some cookies or pastry and share them among coworkers. It's one of those things that are supposed to make the working environment pleasant.

• Birthdays, weddings, babies and farewell gatherings

There are certain standardized customs in Taiwan's working environment, that you might need to follow. For example: If a colleague was having birthday, the others were ordering a cake. We then went to the meeting room and ate it together and chatted a little. When a female colleague had a baby, we went to visit her in the hospital to see her... and the baby of course. We also bought her a gift. When a colleague was leaving the company, a farewell lunch is organized for them, usually in a Chinese restaurant with round tables, where food is passed around (the one, where wedding banquets are held). If a colleague is senior and well-respected, dinner in a hotpot restaurant or a karaoke party might be organized for him. The trickiest part is the wedding banquet. Weddings are very important in Taiwanese culture, but it's kind of tricky to decide, who of your colleagues you would like to invite to join your banquet. In my case, I only chose the ones I felt the closest with, but I made sure, that others didn't know. I felt my wedding is my private matter and I won't invite whole department including people I don't know and people I don't like. I also didn't tell my boss. Some do tell the boss, even invite them and get a big angpao or red envelope with money. But in exchange it might mean, that the boss is sitting at the main table with them and even having a speech (that would be in my case a big nightmare). But if the boss is treating you well and your colleagues are very nice as well, go and invite them to your banquet. You'll gain face (有面子 or yǒu miènzi) and respect among them.

Of being a white foreigner

Being a white foreigner in a Taiwanese IT company is of course a very different experience from your native Taiwanese colleagues and sometimes even from some other races. You will most likely get a better salary (薪水 or xīnshueǐ) for the same position - that's why never discuss the salary you get, never mention any numbers (for Taiwanese it's taboo). In the first few days, maybe even weeks, you will most likely be the gossip of the day and before your Taiwanese colleagues ask you directly where you were coming from, if you were married and where were you living, they will discuss every detail about you on- and offline and spread few false rumors along the way. But don't share too much of yourself in the beginning, it's safer for your long term survival. Once you answer all questions, work will become a routine and you will slowly figure out who is good to be close with and who not. In my ex-company it turned out, that they later on didn't really bother to inform us foreigners about many things - I was lucky to have a network of people, who supplied me with information, so that I was up to date about what's going on. I suggest you to do the same: Be nice to everybody from the beginning, go to joint lunches for a while and find out as much as possible about how the company is ticking. After few months slowly prioritize and create your own network of trustworthy coworkers from various departments.

Promises and reality

The difference between what I was told during the interview and how reality looked like after I joined my old company was pretty big. Therefore I give you a tip: Always research the company you're interested to join with a help of a local and go through various Taiwanese forums, read what ex-employees say. Also research the markets and the foreign media and try to figure out, whether the product is good or lousy. Every company will claim to be in great shape, very organized and treating employees well, but not all of them are. Once you establish contacts in the industry and get insider information, finding a better job will then be much easier - and that will be the topic of my next post.

In conclusion

I hope that I've given you enough information and tips about how it is to work in a medium-sized Taiwanese IT company. Despite having a tough time, I have learned a lot, not only in relation to the product and the market I was in charge of. My Chinese language understanding increased significantly and in addition, I see Taiwanese people from a completely different perspective, I feel like I'm an insider now. There are certain cultural patterns, that are true for most of the people I've worked with, but all in all I have realized, that Taiwanese are very diverse fellows. No doubt, the IT industry is very competitive and challenging, but I would not discourage people from working in Taiwan's IT. You can learn a lot in a very short time, even if at first you sacrifice your private life and sometimes even health. In the end it's up to you to evaluate, if this would be something for you. It is possible to advance and earn more, while manage your working and private life well, but nobody's giving you anything for free - you have to work hard, swallow few bitter pills along the way, and then you have the chance to have a good career. In my case, I hope to gain enough experience in Taiwan's IT to one day return to Europe and get a well-paid job in one of the companies, that's importing products from the Far East. I hope by then I will be fluent in Mandarin and known in certain circles in the industry. But that's still far away, I'll need to waste few more years in the cubicle. Oh well, there are always business trips, that break the routine. And the Computex.

This is office reality in a Chinese company. Not bad, eh? :)

Check also: [Uniquely Taiwan][How to get a job in Taiwan][Top photo source]

25 comments:

  1. Interesting read and I suspect will be very valuable to others thinking about getting a job at a local company in Asia. I wonder if you would ever choose to get a job at a Taiwanese company again? Before I moved to China many people told me similar stories about the cultural differences at local companies which was partly why I only wanted to work at a foreign company. I guess a good learning experience all the same :)

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  2. @David: I am now in another Taiwanese IT company, but that's because I know the industry very well, I have insider information as well as I'm much better in reading the signs during the interview. Nevertheless, there's no perfect match, as there is always a big cultural difference between me and Taiwanese employers. But the longer I stay, the better I can adapt.

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  3. Michael, I understand your sentiments totally with regards to 加班. But just to put things in a bit of perspective: I work at the headquarters of a bank here in the Netherlands. I commute 2.5 hours a day (1 1/4 hour back and 1 1/4 hour forth), and generally stay at work from 8:30AM to 9PM. That is 13+ hours. In the morning dealing with my Asian colleagues, in the afternoon with my American colleagues. Sometimes I have to work on Saturdays. And I know I have colleagues in London who have it even worse. Just to point out: it also happens in Europe.

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  4. I meant 12+ hours. Note that officially we have a 36 hours contract, or ~7 hours a day that I get paid for. Interesting, isn't it?

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  5. @Anonymous: You are seriously comparing bankers in Netherlands and London with people in Taiwan's IT companies? I guess you don't earn 700 Eur per month with very little benefits and social security like some of my ex colleagues, do you? I thought you bankers are not doing too bad... and if you (plural) screw up the economy, the government bails you out. No such thing in Taiwan's IT...

    Of course working overtime happens in Europe, too, but it's rather an exception than the rule like in Taiwan. Besides, Taiwan is a country of 23 millions, maybe comparable to Benelux, but if you use whole Europe as comparison, it's a bit unfair. I don't see any new perspective here.

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  6. Thanks for your very interesting insights. Some of it is obviously Taiwan-specific, but especially your animal prototypes I absolutely recognize in my German company (IT and telecommunications) as well. Also some of the bosses have problems with losing face, maybe not as bad as in Taiwan. In many projects all participants on a working level know and mostly talk openly about unsolved problems, and hardly anything reaches top management levels, until it's too late and customers complain directly at the top management. At least we have a Betriebsrat (works council), some of them really trying to stand in for employees rights, an institution I suppose is unknown in Taiwan?

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  7. @Anonymous: Some bigger companies might have Betriebsrat, but my wife says these are generally weak. Smaller companies, especially IT, have no such things. That means you might be constantly under threat of being laid off, and so people follow these unwritten rules to meet the managements expectations.

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  8. Do you hear that putting an special cookie bag(綠色乖乖) on the servers or network devices can make machines more stable ?

    It looks like this http://pic.pimg.tw/ajeicut/496b4729abe75.png

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  9. @Chih-Min Chao: Now I know it :)

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  10. "that's why never discuss the salary you get, never mention any numbers (for Taiwanese it's taboo)."

    I always figured this wasn't a cultural taboo - people are quite willing to ask your salary in other circumstances in Taiwan (pubs, trains etc.). Actually it was a contractual requirement at Foxconn that we didn't disclose our salaries to others, and I'm guessing that the same kind of thing here.

    About overtime - I think you're really taking the Central/Eastern European view here. I now work in Poland wherere the rule really is that you just work the hours your paid for and then go home - the office is empty by 5PM. In the UK, though, the general idea is that you're not really paid just to fill your chair, but to get a certain amount of work done - so people will find themselves putting in as much overtime as is needed to complete a particular task. Most of my Finnish colleagues do the same.

    Yeah, the time-wasting in Taiwanese offices is endemic, but it took working in Japan for me to really see just how bad this kind of thing can get. At Foxconn people would often do an hour or so of overtime every day, most of which was straight-up wasted time, but at least they would start the day on time. In Japan, because it was known that actually the boss wouldn't be in until 11 o'clock in the morning (he worked 'till 10.30 most nights), just so long as you got in before 11 o' clock and made it look like you'd been working since 9 AM you were fine.

    BTW - working in private law firms (which is not so well-paid as you'd imagine) you'll often find yourself doing 13-14 hours a day regardless of where you are in the world. That's why I prefer working in-house, because then at least you keep regular business hours.

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  11. @FOARP: Regarding salary: It's a taboo within company, even if there is no contract forbidding you to share. Of course it also depends on the person. Once I was close friend with some of my colleagues, we could share the salary as well. But generally the majority in the companies I worked would never discuss it openly.

    Regarding overtime: Yes, I always speak from the perspective of a Slovenian, our country was for about two decades in transition from socialism to capitalism. What I see in Taiwan today regarding work is slowly becoming a norm in my country, well, in some fields. But a lot of the working culture and the mindset is still present from the socialist times, the good and the bad. This is my background and everything I experience in Taiwan is reflected through my unique perspective :)

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  12. Your story is 100% like I experienced it. I'm still looking for a Job here in Taiwan.

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  13. One thing I want to point out is that it really matters a lot what kind of management you deal with. I am working in the company and my boss often tell me - don't work late, go home early, put your life priorities, etc. Then he would sometimes ask us for opinions how to actually improve things and will actually follow up on our recommendations - not just his own decisions.

    As you mentioned earlier - do research before you go to work in IT company. I love pc / video games and I ended up working for manufacturer that produces gear for gamers. I love my job and I don't mind putting in extra hours if I am really busy. If not, I just go home on time. Also, my coworkers will check out at exact time that is supposed to go home - no overtime. Some companies will tell you 'we want to be like a foreign company' which is a good sign.

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  14. Your blog is really good reading, even I work in the building industry. As the sole foreigner in a Taiwanese company I can relate to much of it.
    This is my second job, my first one was a lot like your first job,
    so I only lasted for few months. My current job is 3.5 years so far and counting.

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  15. Just found your blog and we are very excited to read about your stories of Taiwanese work life. Thanks for sharing this with us. We are a German couple and have Working Holiday Visa for Taiwan. I am from the IT sector and hope to find a job in Taiwan - maybe also for longterm. But first I have to read about your experiences. ;-)

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  16. I pretty much agree with you for the most part. I previously worked for a Taiwanese company for 2-3 month, Finally, I was so fed up that I decided to change my job. My experience in previous company was a big eye opener. Our manager, in fact the entire team consisted of a bunch of muppets who loved to transfer their work load to one another. As mentioned, we had weekly meeting, brain storming sessions and all kind of stupidity which eventually was nothing but a method for killing the 9 hours. You were expected to follow the manager blindly and there was no communication in between the team mates or anyone. I was being paid just 12 salaries of 40k which again wasn't attracting me either.

    I am working in a new company which pays me 50k for 14 months. However, the problems are pretty much somewhat same. Communication is a big problem, thankfully here i got a international team mate and the local Taiwanese are fluent in English. However, it is not just about language, the Taiwanese way of doing things is far too slow and time consuming, It all appears just pretentious to me, All my team mates work for like 9.5-10 hours while the hours needed are just 9, the reason being to impress the managers and the MD. I do not frankly get this BS since eventually they end up just chit chatting and gossiping , I am not sure if our manager even cares for this. Finally, I seriously advice any foreigner (except Asians) to think a lot before just stepping in, Apart from average salaries, lower job quality and over burdened job, there is not too much to gain.

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  17. I spent years working on various Taiwanese companies. The only things I learned from that was Chinese and a certain 'just get the job done' and 'dont plan too much' ethos, which sometimes helps and sometimes hinders when making transition to foreign companies again.

    The restrictive work visas also made things more difficult for me if I wanted to move job.
    Ok I did learn how to drink like a local!

    I don't miss the working environment which I found very poor, the salaries are bad, the contracts are like tissue paper, the staff hard to get any opinion out of..many many issues.

    I refuse to work in a Taiwanese company ever again unless absolutely necessary.

    I echo the above comment that there is not much to gain from working from East Asian companies and there is a lot to lose, usually in your free time and health and in the case of Taiwan a broke-ass bank balance!

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  18. Ed en VadrouilleMay 8, 2013 at 1:15 AM

    One thing you could have added: Micromanagement is high, most decisions are made by managers, who thus have very little time and are really overworked. Working in CyberLink, we realised the CEO (back then we were 700 people working in the company) was commenting on the design of some sales stickers at 6 in the morning on a Sunday Morning.
    The consequence of this is that productivity is very low for common workers who achieve low pay, and let the execs walk away with the lion share.

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  19. @Ed en Vadrouille: Well said!

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  20. I'm 20, a foreigner yet possess a Taiwan passport. I got my first professional job in Taiwan on November 2012. I work as a 'Marketing Specialist' (No idea what that means) in the medical device industry mostly doing catalogues, market research, website maintenance e.t.c. I finished university in June 2012 and had about 3 months to bag a job in England, which I didn't. So when I landed this one, I was pretty desperate because my confidence was shot and I had a lot of pressure from my parents to get into society.

    I now earn 31K NT$/month (12x) + Chinese new year bonus. Every month, I get deducted over 1,200 NT$ for labor insurance e.t.c so I bring home 28,500. Deduct 2,200 for lunch, 1,000 for gas and you come out with about 25,000.

    The above post is all true. I have been lucky enough to be surrounded by good colleagues who are not too backstabby but the management and work processes in Taiwan is hell. Everybody cares about their own ass (KPI). I am considering leaving but don't know where I will end up if I do.

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  21. that seems so much as my company, though it's not in IT field... with some differences tho. I'm leaving soon too, as I'm tired and I feel this work as sales doesn't do anything good to anyone but the boss and his family. Also, the Taiwanese colleagues are kind of mean to me (not openly), but I'm the only one that never is told when they order drinks (and the company is in the middle of nowhere, so it's kind of annoying, as I can't get drinks by myself). Sigh... though I'm not expecting much better environment from my new company :D

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  22. Very interesting read...and a coincidence that I just happened to stumble across your blog today, the day after my last working day at a Taiwan software company in Xindian. I can't disagree with a single thing you wrote having experience word for word exactly what you described. In just 18 short months, my health has been whittled away through pointless overtime, managing the workload of three people, getting pulled into a meeting room and getting in trouble for having an average of 9 hours and 20 minutes of working hours (once I'd had enough of the 11 hour days), which is short of the "required" 9 1/2 hours even though it specifically says 9 in my contract, and literally having been treated like a workbeast, fulfilling every whim and desire of the CEO and upper management without ever being allowed to question something that's wrong, even a marketing slogan that will be delivered to the US market with a glaring grammatical error since the CEO approved it.

    I, like you, was at one point every one of the animals you described except the rat. I started off, also without much corporate experience, as a monkey. As disillusionment began to set in once I realized my will to "make things better" were in fact making me look bad, I became a sheep and a dog. Then, I tried to improve my situation and became a monkey again. By about the one year mark, I was so fed up, I became a turkey. It's probably good I left when I did. Although I got on very well with my co-workers, I have to admit, I found my complaining almost every day by the end of it all, something I had never done at any job in the past. I hope the next job I can turn it around. Upon early reflection, that's not the type of person I want to be.

    Anyway, thanks very much for the great read. Can't believe how similar the culture is across the board.

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  23. i cheered aloud when i saw you describing them as "talk for the sake of talking". that's so true and one huge thing i can't stand about them! sometimes i feel they are just buying time and trying to confuse me, because they have no idea how to answer my questions. in fact thats how i feel most of the time!

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  24. Is it necessary to have a degree to be a foreigner working in a Taiwan IT company? Or would a CCNP certificate be enough?
    Thanks!

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