Is Jeremy Lin Taiwanese or Chinese?
How a talented athlete bolstered the Taiwanese pride
A new basketball superstar is born: Jeremy Lin, a 24 years old Taiwanese-American point guard of the New York Knicks. He is filling up the headlines all across America and abroad. The craze surrounding this talented player is called "Linsanity" and has not only taken over American basketball enthusiasts, the fever has started in Taiwan and has recently spilled over to China, where both countries identify him as one of their own. And this is the tricky part, where I'd like to shed some light on, because a lot of people might not understand what is this about, especially American readers, who are not familiar with the Taiwan-China issues.
"One China, one Taiwan"
Taiwan (officially Republic of China or ROC) is a small sovereign country in East Asia, with a very complex political situation and a limited international recognition, due to blockades from China (officially People's Republic of China or PRC), which claims that Taiwan is just a breakaway province. I won't go into a detailed discussion of Taiwan's legal and international status, you can read more about this here. Fact is, if you're living in Taiwan, you will most probably feel that you're living in a free and democratic country with a predominant Chinese speaking population, who see themselves either as "Taiwanese" (台灣人) or "ethnic Chinese" (華人), and most likely not as "Chinese" (中國人) in the sense of "nationals of People's Republic of China". There are exceptions of course, because as mentioned before, the issue is complex. The two countries are a product of a very complicated history in this part of the world (foreign interference, internal turmoil) and if we simplify it - a civil war from 1927 to 1950 between the communists (who today rule China) and nationalists (who today rule Taiwan), that among other things caused a separation of the national and cultural identity on each side. Whether you like it or not, in the issue of Jeremy Lin's identity, which is the main topic of this post, we need to see Taiwan and China as two separate entities, because that's what they de facto are.
"Jeremy Lin is American! And Taiwanese."
Jeremy Lin is first and foremost an American. Not only is he born in America, one could say that his personal story of a taunted underdog, who never gave up to pursue his dream, caters to that famous narrative of the "American dream", which was brilliantly explained by James Truslow Adams in his book The Epic of America (1931), where he said that the American dream is "that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" (source, page 214). Jeremy is a son of first generation immigrants, that left Taiwan in the late 1970s. Both are Harvard university graduates and engineers in two different fields, father in the semiconductor field, mother in software (source). This is the part, where the average Taiwanese could identify with, especially people of the older generation, who survived the tough times of the Cold War and the immigration wave, that accompanied it. In Taiwanese culture, that roots in Confucianism, the concept of filial piety 孝順 (xiàoshùn) is very strongly anchored in people's minds and it basically means that you have to take care of your parents until they die. Not only that, they always have a say in your affairs and in return you have to show love, respect, support and understanding. This strengthens the bonds of a family and the whole ancestry, which manifests itself in the way one sees his ethnic or national identity. It is therefore hard for Taiwanese to see Jeremy Lin as not one of their own, despite the fact, that he has not grown up in Taiwan and that his success is (beside his personal talent and hard work), a consequence of growing up in America. "His parents are Taiwanese, therefore he is Taiwanese" is probably the common thought among his fans in Taiwan. And the Linsanity here started way before the current one in America and China. If you turn on the Taiwanese ESPN, most of the time you will see Jeremy Lin, and not only his games and interviews, there is a broad array of Taiwanese sports journalists and commentators, who share their views and opinions on the young talented player - nonstop. In Taiwan he is known as 林書豪 or Lin Shu-how. Another very important aspect, why Taiwanese have adopted him so quickly as one of his own, is the lack of the country's international recognition. Even in sports, a lot of Taiwanese athletes are commonly mistaken or deliberately taken as Chinese. Since China is now so rich and powerful, it represents a very big market for Taiwanese talents and that's why you will rarely see one of them vocally involved in this issue. Money and pragmatism too often trump the national pride, at least on the outside. Jeremy Lin is born in America and when he says "I'm really proud of my parents being from Taiwan" (in an interview with Elie Seckbach), he definitely makes a lot of Taiwanese hearts flutter.
"I'm really proud of being Chinese"
On the other hand, Jeremy Lin is also proud of his ethnic Chinese heritage (his grand grand mother came from China) and has received a lot of attention from media and fans in the Middle Kingdom these days. In China he's known as 林书豪 or Lin Shuhao. Fans in China regard Taiwan as part of their country and its people as Chinese, therefore they also see Jeremy Lin as one of their own.
On Baidu, the Chinese online encyclopedia, Jeremy Lin's profile emphasizes the fact, that one of his grand grand mothers came from the Chinese province Zhejiang ("祖籍是浙江省嘉兴市平湖"), furthermore it says that his parents are Chinese from Taiwan ("父母都是中国台湾人", the part 中国台湾 means something like China's Taiwan, implying Taiwan is part of China - there is no simple translation for 中国台湾人 in English).
Read Chinese netizens' reactions to Jeremy Lin.
Asian-American underdog
If we put all the excitement in Taiwan and China aside and revert back to America, we come to an area, where Jeremy Lin might really leave a big impact: He might be the first Asian-American basketball superstar, an idol to many other Asian-Americans (and even Asian-Canadians alike). This was brilliantly pointed out by an article in the Economist today:
"The second question is whether he is likely to draw increased attention to the sport from other Asian-Americans, and perhaps shatter some racial stereotypes along the way. Although Yao Ming was the league’s first Asian star, Asian-Americans only partially embraced him as their own. He grew up in China rather than in the United States. And at 2.29m, he is too much of a physical outlier for most fans to relate to.
Mr Lin’s modesty and academic pedigree conform to mainstream perceptions of Asian-Americans. But his profile as a player does not. Some of the aspects of the game where he is weakest, such as long-distance shooting, are those that require the most practice and repetition. In contrast, his court vision, which enables him to execute precise passes in traffic, and his killer crossover dribble and powerful dunks, which recall Allen Iverson at his best, are usually seen as “innate” skills that historically have been associated with black players".
Sure, at this point it's hard to say, in which direction this young talented basketball player will go. Maybe he just had the best week of his life or maybe the best is yet to come - we will see. I really hope he doesn't get caught up in political issues between China and Taiwan, it would only distract him from what he's doing best: Playing basketball. In the end, only he knows who he really is and I think he has multiple identities and all the rights to not explain it to anybody.
"The second question is whether he is likely to draw increased attention to the sport from other Asian-Americans, and perhaps shatter some racial stereotypes along the way. Although Yao Ming was the league’s first Asian star, Asian-Americans only partially embraced him as their own. He grew up in China rather than in the United States. And at 2.29m, he is too much of a physical outlier for most fans to relate to.
Mr Lin’s modesty and academic pedigree conform to mainstream perceptions of Asian-Americans. But his profile as a player does not. Some of the aspects of the game where he is weakest, such as long-distance shooting, are those that require the most practice and repetition. In contrast, his court vision, which enables him to execute precise passes in traffic, and his killer crossover dribble and powerful dunks, which recall Allen Iverson at his best, are usually seen as “innate” skills that historically have been associated with black players".
Sure, at this point it's hard to say, in which direction this young talented basketball player will go. Maybe he just had the best week of his life or maybe the best is yet to come - we will see. I really hope he doesn't get caught up in political issues between China and Taiwan, it would only distract him from what he's doing best: Playing basketball. In the end, only he knows who he really is and I think he has multiple identities and all the rights to not explain it to anybody.
Jeremy, all the best to you!
▷ Here are some useful related links:
• Jeremy Lin on Twitter (@JLin7)
• Jeremy Lin's Facebook page in English
• Jeremy Lin's Facebook page in Chinese
• Jeremy Lin's homepage
• Jeremy Lin's YouTube channel
• Jeremy Lin NBA Profile
• With 38 Points, the Legend Grows, NYT article
▷ Old articles about Jeremy Lin (2009-2010):
• Immigrant dream plays out through son, ESPN, December 10, 2009
• Harvard Superstar… On the B-ball Court!, TaiwaneseAmerican.org, December 11, 2009
• Jeremy Lin One Step Closer to NBA Contract, TaiwaneseAmerican.org, July 18, 2010
▷ My follow-up post:
• Linsanity in Taiwan
Have you already gone "Linsane"?
Read related articles: [My UNIQUELY TAIWANESE page]
68 KAFKAESQUE COMMENTS:
In my view China should stop trying to undermine the sovereignties of Taiwan and HK. They have a big enough country as it is, with enough global power. Jeez!
February 12, 2012 12:50 AM
yes, leave the political issues, just let him play
February 12, 2012 2:10 AM
His ethnicity is Han Chinese right? I don't remember anything like Taiwanese ethnicity. There is only Taiwanese nationality, no Taiwanese ethnicity.
February 12, 2012 12:43 PM
"Taiwan (officially Republic of China or ROC) is a small sovereign country in East Asia"
If Taiwan = Republic of China. How are "Taiwanese" and "Chinese" mutually exclusive propositions?
Thus, there is no contradiction when Jeremy Lin stated:
"I'm really proud of being Chinese, I'm really proud of my parents being from Taiwan. I just thank God for the opportunity."
February 12, 2012 12:53 PM
台灣之光林書豪加油！
February 12, 2012 1:12 PM
Jeremy Lin is The Pride of Taiwan！
February 12, 2012 1:18 PM
@Nashe: That's a statement.
@TaiwanJoyceUS: Agreed.
@Kemo: You have a point, but there are people in Taiwan, who see themselves as ethnic Taiwanese (as I said, the issue is complex). The Chinese ethnicity is also a term, that could be easily questioned - I think we generally use these terms too lightly with the limitations of the English language and apply Western standards (whatever this vague term means).
@Anonymous: You have a point. In English language there are no contradictions because the two terms are homonyms, but had he used Chinese terms, it would be much clearer what he meant. For example if he'd used 中国人, he'd imply the nationality of China and would get a lot of positive reactions from that country, had he used 華人, he'd imply his ethnic Chinese roots, the term is commonly used in Taiwan. However both terms can be simply translated as "Chinese" in English language. It's good for him to keep it unclear :)
February 12, 2012 1:56 PM
Jeremy Lin: I'm Chinese.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXOOsZ9q9Rc
Jeremy Lin (林书豪) is ethnic Chinese and he is holding U.S. passport. I don't really know what do you mean by "Taiwanese". you mean someone holding the republic of China passport (clearly false in this case).
February 12, 2012 2:04 PM
Yes, Jeremy Lin's parents are clearly from Taiwan. The sport reporters claiming that Lin is Chinese American is somewhat misleading. People will immediately think of mainland China, which is not correct at all. Oh well...
林書豪加油!!
February 12, 2012 2:08 PM
@MKL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Taiwanese culture the same as Han Chinese culture. For example, both Han Chinese and Taiwanese Han celebrate Chinese New Year, Lantern Festival, Dragon Boat Festival and Ghost Festival. Both of them also speak similar language. Calling it Taiwanese instead of Han Chinese, don't you think that sound like stealing other ethnic's culture?
February 12, 2012 2:28 PM
@Kemo
No, you're absolutely right. The two cultures share more than they don't, and the language used in official communications is still Mandarin, though with Taiwan's unique tone inflections. It's really not surprising that they're hardly different, considering that the Nationalists fled but a mere fifty years ago. There may be differences in the society, but most people living in Taiwan can trace their ancestry back only a few generations to China. It really does feel like a theft of culture at times when Taiwan doesn't recognize its Chinese roots, and even attempts to claim itself as a completely separate ethnic group.
February 12, 2012 2:55 PM
@Anonymous: That's one way to put it, if you disregard everything I wrote about China and Taiwan issue and the different terminology. Do you think by doing so, you made your argument stronger or weaker?
@TK: Good point.
@Kemo: Taiwanese culture is Taiwanese culture. I never heard of Han Chinese culture, what is that? Han is describing a race or ethnicity, but Han are not all ethnic groups in China, nor in Taiwan. Is like you equate American culture as White culture.
Taiwanese culture is unique, as it's a mix of a lot of influences, from Chinese to Austronesian to Japanese. Even if some celebrations and traditions are same or similar in Taiwan and China, that's no argument for a non-existence of a distinct Taiwanese culture. Have you ever been here in Taiwan? Visit Taiwan and China and you'll see it's different, same as the UK and USA, Germany and Switzerland, Mexico and Argentina... If race is the only think that constitutes a culture for you, then you're clearly not on the bright side.
February 12, 2012 3:07 PM
@MKL
You do realize Han Chinese are the majority in in China right? About 92% of China population is ethnic Han. Han Chinese is ethnicity, just like Japanese and Korean. Just like there are Japanese culture, there also Han Chinese culture. American is nationality, while white is ethnicity. I never heard of Taiwanese culture before. What is that? When I said Taiwanese stealing people culture, I am referring to Taiwanese ethnic, not nationality like American. Please don't get confused.
February 12, 2012 3:23 PM
Beside, how would you explain the language thing. Isn't the languages they spoke are Mandarin similar to the ethnic Han Chinese from China?
February 12, 2012 3:34 PM
@Kemo: Whites are also majority in America, yet American culture doesn't equal White culture. And there are many Whites in other countries, who are not Americans and have their distinct culture. Race or ethnicity doesn't necessarily equal culture. Just because someone is White and from Britain and someone else is White and from America, it doesn't mean they have the same culture, even if they speak the same language and share some historic roots and other traditions. Same with Taiwan, China, Singapore - all have a predominant Han Chinese populations, but all 3 cultures are different. I've lived in Singapore, now Taiwan and visited China as well - it's different.
February 12, 2012 3:46 PM
@MKL
Hi. I'm the first Anonymous. To respond to your point. The mentality of "Taiwanese not Chinese" is an artificial distinction introduced to popularity by the DPP and their pan-green ilk.
中国, is a contraction that can stand for both 中华人民共和国 (PRC)， as well as 中华民国 (ROC). Both their constitutions contain a multitude of ethnicities, of which "Taiwanese" is not one of them. Hence, 台湾人(Taiwanese) can at best be a reflection of regionalism akin to 北京人， 上海人， or more closely 福建人.
I'd like to conclude by sharing this little anecdote:
<>
February 12, 2012 3:48 PM
Link for some reason not shown.
http://thechinadesk.blogspot.com/2009/11/narcissism-of-small-differences.html
February 12, 2012 3:48 PM
I apologize for the triple-post. But just a disclaimer that I'm not the author of the above-referenced blog.
February 12, 2012 3:53 PM
@Anonymous: How can it be more artificial than the mentality of Taiwanese are Chinese? Both have their supporters, it's more or less cut 50%-50% in Taiwan. Don't dismiss this so lightly. Btw, you're using official constitutional documents - that's tricky, because we could go into very long arguments about that. Officially Taiwan is a province of either ROC or PRC, depends on which one you read - both are completely in conflict with the reality on the ground and outdated. What I'm using is what I see in my daily life in Taiwan and hear from people here.
And the blog you link to is written by an extremely blue blogger. His arguments are usually blinded by ideology, not reason.
February 12, 2012 3:55 PM
@MKL
'Race or ethnicity doesn't equal culture'.
Then, how would you define ethnicity then? Since you are from Singapore, it should be easier for you to understand what I'm going to say next. I'm ethnic Han Chinese from Malaysia. In Malaysia, our culture are the same as any other ethnic Han Chinese around the world. Our festivals are the same. However, unlike the Taiwanese, we do not deny our Han Chinese ethnicity. In Malaysia and Singapore, we are even more multicultural than Taiwan. However, do you see any of us calling ourselves Malaysian or Singaporean ethnicity? No, we don't. We still call ourselves ethnic Chinese. Only when it come to nationality, we refer ourselves as Malaysian or Singaporean. That is why I don't understand all this Taiwanese ethnicity thing. Taiwanese nationality, I can understand that. Taiwanese ethnicity, never heard of that before.
February 12, 2012 3:57 PM
I prefer to think of Jeremy Lin as an American-born, ethnic Chinese, whose family hails from Taiwan.
Yeah its quite a description I know and the issue is too complex as you mentioned. Both countries and its people want to claim his success.
If I were him I would call myself simply American and nothing else and tell people I am proud of being an American. If people were to ask about my family then I would jump into the whole Mainland/Taiwan description.
It's like looking at Kobe and wondering whether he is from Congo or Nigeria or him stating he is proud to be Nigerian American? Sounds too odd as well.
February 12, 2012 4:10 PM
Taiwanese seems to have the kind of impressions where nationality=ethnicity, which in my opinion is totally wrong.
February 12, 2012 4:12 PM
@Kemo: I'm not Singaporean, just lived there temporarily. I also lived in Penang and Batu Pahat and know Malaysia and it's people very well.
There are some people in Taiwan, who see Taiwanese as ethnicity (a small minority), I did not say I sympathize with this theory, nor did I say that I oppose it - I'm just reporting it. It's based on the fact, that a lot of immigrants from the 17th century married with women of aboriginal (Austronesian) descent and hence the majority of Taiwanese have a mix blood. This excludes the Chinese, who came end of 1940s with Chiang Kai-shek. If this is evidence enough for a distinct Taiwanese ethnicity it's a matter of criteria. One could say yes, one could say no - there is no definite answer.
I think you disregarded most of what I wrote and only focus on one small remark related to "Taiwanese ethnicity". Let me be clear: Most Taiwanese have no problem with their Chinese roots, but they want to be distinct from the Chinese in China, that's all. Singapore and Malaysia don't have missiles from China pointed at them, nor do they suffer from a consequence of a long lasting civil war. Please take everything into consideration, before you so lightly compare Taiwanese and Chinese in Malaysia and Singapore. I'm not gonna respond to your further comments.
@Xiao Hei: You stated it the best way possible in order to avoid conflicts. I'm sure he'll be smart enough to do so, too.
February 12, 2012 4:20 PM
Taiwanese ethnicity is like American ethnicity, which to me means the misinformed. Many just call themselves white Caucasians because they were never informed or lost track of their European ancestry.
If all of Lin's grandparents were from China, then his parents are Chinese of Taiwanese nationality, which makes Lin a Chinese-American, he has no part with being Taiwanese.
February 12, 2012 4:27 PM
@MKL
I know you said you won't respond to my further my comment, anyway I think both you and I are starting to have agreement here. I also think it always the politic issues and pressure from China that cause this Taiwanese ethnicity controversy I always try to avoid defining ethnic using genetic/blood because if I do, I will make myself sound like Stormfront who obsess with white purity. So I choose to define ethnic from culture, regardless of those Austronesian blood Taiwanese have. Beside, genetically speaking, there is no such thing as ethnic Han Chinese in the first place. Han Chinese identity are based on culture and languages. Speaking about Taiwanese ethnicity genetic/blood, here is an interesting article about Taiwanese genetics. You might want to take a look at it.
http://gradworks.umi.com/33/43/3343568.html
Anyway, despite some disagreement earlier, it still nice article you have there. Hope you enjoy your time in Malaysia.
February 12, 2012 4:33 PM
@Anonymous: Taiwan is a small island, where first Chinese immigrants intermarried with the aboriginal people of different ethnicity. It is an argument worthy of a discussion, you can't just dismiss it by comparing it to a 272 times bigger country with a very different history.
February 12, 2012 4:34 PM
@Kemo: It's fine. I like the debate, I haven't had one here for a long time :) I'm sure some people can learn from it and take it as a reference. Thanks for the effort and the link at the end.
February 12, 2012 4:49 PM
to all the taiwanese that refuse to be labeled as chinese:
QUICK FKING STEALING CHINESE CULTURES.
But no seriously, stop speaking chinese or even minnan, stop celebrating chinese holidays and culture, and please change your chinese name too. Then I'll call you a true formosan.
February 12, 2012 6:16 PM
And be honest, the whole taiwan looks like a chinatown island, can you guys get your own taiwanese cultured island? And change your country flag too, it was ours, change your country offical name too(impossible).
February 12, 2012 6:20 PM
@Anonymous: Your comment makes no sense.
February 12, 2012 7:38 PM
'Beside, genetically speaking, there is no such thing as ethnic Han Chinese in the first place.'
Just some correction from my previous posts. What I actually want to say here is genetically speaking there is no such thing as PURE ethnic Han Chinese. I forget to add the words 'pure' in my previous posts.Ethnic Han Chinese are one of the most diverse ethnic.
@Annonymous
Dude, calm down. The main reason Taiwanese do this is probably because they want independence. Chinese from Malaysia and Singapore got no problem referring themselves as ethnic Han Chinese.Maybe if Taiwan is independence country like Singapore, they will have no problem calling themselves ethnic Han Chinese as well. Anyway, just a thought.
February 12, 2012 8:26 PM
I have both Chinese and Taiwanese friends. Most of them are 'westernized' so pretty laid back about their political situation. What I noticed from the others (natives) though is that the Taiwanese are way more intense than the Chinese when it comes to that argument. That is probably also why they try to identify Jeremy Lin as a Taiwanese, to identify themselves and gain more public recognition whereas the Chinese see him as one of their own but in a less mattering way like 'Oh yeah...he's Chinese...' What's most important though is that JLin refers himself as an Asian-American. That is the American way, no other country can call that many different ethnicities part of their own culture. Be it Chinese, Taiwanese Vietnamese, Thai, Hmong etc. ...wherever they go, they're Americans. They don't even know half of their 'original' language. In China or Taiwan, JLin will always be a foreigner
February 12, 2012 10:49 PM
@Kemo: Thanks for the correction and the reply to Anonymous.
@Anonymous: Go to China and discuss the Taiwan-China issue and go to Taiwan and do the same. You'll most definitely have the completely opposite experience of what you now think, Chinese in China are way more nationalistic. It might be different in USA, where the Taiwanese community is relatively small and fights for recognition.
February 13, 2012 12:34 AM
98% of "Taiwanese" have Chinese ancestry~ So Taiwan=China
Last year in ShangHai, Jeremy Lin says he is Chinese American and his family visit China every year.
February 13, 2012 4:00 AM
The only reason this silly argument exists is because of politics, and I'm sure most outsiders know it. If the PRC and ROC had gotten along well all this time diplomatically, there'd be no debate about whether the Taiwanese are truly Chinese or a separate ethnic group. Period.
That said, I don't think it's a good justification to claim you're a separate ethnic group just because the ROC and PRC don't get along. Immature at best.
February 13, 2012 4:13 AM
MKL:
Let me make myself clear, I wrote that message because I'm sick of hearing Taiwanese people saying they are not Chinese at all, and adding more oil to fire by saying many anti-chinese stuff, if you taiwanese people really hate to be labeled as "chinese" please do me a favor by changing your identity, country, and culture, so I don't mistaken you for a Chinese person.
February 13, 2012 9:47 AM
People who aren't open-minded bother me, ugh. To preface, I'm American, parents are Taiwanese, and so are my grandparents, but I'm sure if you go far enough back someone in my lineage is from China.
I'm not sure how people can deny Taiwan as a nation. Besides the fact that China won't let it happen and would rather just point missiles at the country, it's a self-governing island with its own identity. It discusses trade with other countries, INCLUDING China. It has a large percentage of people who identify with being Taiwanese rather than Chinese (and those who don't are mostly recently immigrated Chinese people). And I'd have to say it has its own culture. If you disagree you clearly haven't visited both countries. I've visited Taiwan almost annually since I was born for over twenty years now, and the one time I toured China I was blown away by how different the culture was. I use the term culture loosely to describe the atmosphere, the feeling the people gave off, etc. Please keep in mind that I went thinking that it would be vastly different, and even so it exceeded those expectations.
Culturally the "Chinese culture" pervades through many other Asian cultures. Its influence is far and wide. If you look at Japanese writing or Korean writing you'll see Chinese characters. And similarly, Taiwanese has its similarities and differences. It uses traditional Chinese characters while China uses simplified. I speak Mandarin fluently (with a Taiwanese accent) but can't understand a sentence of Taiwanese. Just because it may be highly influenced by Chinese culture does not mean we should be labeling them as Chinese. We do not call Malaysian or Singaporean people Chinese (unless their parents were from China) any more than we call white people living in America British.
February 13, 2012 4:34 PM
@Annonymous
I've visited Taiwan before and it's culture pretty much the same as Chinese culture from Malaysia and Singapore or at least primarily Chinese. Chinese from Singapore and Malaysia refer themselves as ethnic Chinese. They are more multicultural than Taiwan but they still call themselves ethnic Chinese. Japanese and Korean do not speak Mandarin. There is no such thing as Singaporean ethnic or Malaysian ethnic, unless you Taiwanese are being ignorant. Again, Taiwanese are confused the difference between nationality and ethnicity.
February 13, 2012 6:43 PM
Action speaks louder than word. When you keep on practicing Chinese culture, yet refuse to be acknowledge as ethnic Chinese, that's not very convincing. Your action on which culture you practice define your ethnicity.
If you really want to create a new identity and not referred to as ethnic Chinese, then perhaps, like the other guy says, it's better if Taiwanese change their culture identity and invent new language.
February 13, 2012 6:51 PM
Sorry for triple post. I just want to make it clear that Chinese culture influence on Japan and Korea are not the same as the situation in Taiwan. It's totally different. Unlike Taiwan, Japanese and Korea culture have their own origin. Japanese and Korea culture later on evolve when they receive ethnic Han Chinese culture.
For example, let us compare Duanwu festival from China and Dano festival from Korea. Both of this festival fall on the same date. However, if you do research, you will notice that Korean's Dano festival are from totally different origin from China. It possible Han Chinese culture influence the date. The culture celebrated by people of Taiwan have similar origin from ethnic Han Chinese culture. The situation of Chinese culture influence to Japan and Korea are not the same as Taiwan. Please don't confused.
February 13, 2012 7:17 PM
Another mistake on my post. It's festival celebrated, not culture celebrated. What I mean to say is that the festival celebrated in Taiwan and culture they practice have same origin as ethnic Han Chinese culture. Japan and Korea culture have their own culture and festival origin which make them totally different case from Taiwan.
February 13, 2012 7:23 PM
@Icekyrlin: 75% of "Americans" have European ancestry~ So USA=Europe - Give me a break!
@Dear all: I've decided to moderate comments on this thread, what some of you are saying is beyond distasteful. How many times did I mention, that only a small part of Taiwanese see this term as ethnicity, a vast majority refers to their ethnicity as 華人 or ethnic Chinese! Even so, it's a free country and every Taiwanese has the right to identify as whatever he feels he is: Chinese, Taiwanese, Hakka, Ketagalan, Amis, Formosan... whatever! No outsider has a say in that, it's a purely personal matter. Same as it's personal for Jeremy Lin to be whoever he feels the most: American? Asian-American? Taiwanese? Taiwanese-American? Chinese? Whatever. It's his effing right and choice!
My post about this issue didn't mean to have any conclusions, because there are none. I just wanted to highlight the complexity of the problem, yet some of you used it to attack Taiwanese people. It sickens me, because it reeks of fascism and I won't tolerate this on my blog.
Anyone, who repeats himself or doesn't say anything new in his comment, will not be published on this thread. I was hoping to get some new insights on the matter, yet the thread was hijacked by Chinese nationalists, who have no idea about Taiwanese people. This is now over.
I will only publish comments, that discuss the issue in a civil way with no attacks and no repetition. I'll keep the disgusting comments up to highlight my point.
February 13, 2012 8:47 PM
If Jeremy LIN is treated as Taiwanese because his parents came from Taiwan, then should we treat Jeremy LIN's parents as Chinese because his grandparents came from China? If we do so then should we treat Jeremy LIN as Chinese?
February 13, 2012 10:24 PM
@Anonymous: Nice try. Taiwanese national identity is younger than his grandparents (who were most likely born under Japanese rule). Your statement implies no change of identity in 3 generations, but this is wrong. Taiwanese identity has its roots in 1895 (maybe even earlier) and has significantly grew after the White terror period and peaked in the mid 1990s to early 2000s. Ever since it has maintained a significant level, it's become mainstream.
February 13, 2012 10:42 PM
@Anonymous
In an interview with Elie Seckbach, Jeremy Lin himself said he is very proud of being Chinese. At the same time, he claim he s proud of his parents being from Taiwan. I think Jeremy Lin's family is Taiwanese nationality who see themselves as ethnic Chinese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Lin#Personal_life
February 13, 2012 10:55 PM
Anonymous @4:34pm
"And I'd have to say it has its own culture. If you disagree you clearly haven't visited both countries. I've visited Taiwan almost annually since I was born for over twenty years now, and the one time I toured China I was blown away by how different the culture was."
Opinions are not facts. I was born in Taiwan and lived there 9 years. I also visit China over a dozen times in the last 4 years. Their cultures, after adjusting for politics, are not very different. Clearly I've visited both places.
@KML
You mention several times that "a lot" of early Chinese immigrants intermarried with local aboriginals. Do you have any documentation? Looking at my small sample of "Taiwanese" friends, none have partial aboriginal ancestry. Even today, ethnic Chinese in SE Asia are reluctant to marry non-Chinese.
February 14, 2012 12:33 PM
People who claim that Taiwanese = Chinese, plain and simple, are just plainly ignorant. My parents immigrated to the US from Taiwan, and based on family records, my ancestors immigrated from China over 300 years ago. I identify myself as being Taiwanese and not Chinese. When I travel to China, I do not identify with the people there and feel like a foreigner. Taiwanese is a separate language- it is a dialect of Chinese, just as Cantonese and Mandarin (official language of China) are also. The only reason why people in Taiwan even speak Mandarin is because Chiang Kai Shek fled from China and took over Taiwan's government from Japan. Chinese who came with him replaced Taiwanese educators and Mandarin became the official language. Students who were overheard speaking Taiwanese were punished. Previously people in Taiwan were educated in Japanese, and spoke Taiwanese at home. My grandparents could not even understand or read Mandarin- only Japanese and Taiwanese. I am not saying that ethnically, Taiwanese are completely separate from Chinese, but Taiwan's culture has been separate and very different. Along with Chinese, there are Native Taiwanese, Dutch, and Japanese influences in its culture. Please do not be so ignorant and generalize Taiwan and China. It is very offensive.
February 14, 2012 4:09 PM
@MKL First of all, thank you for such a neutral and insightful article, I think JLin should just be left to play ball, but since there are some debatable issues, I just want to put in my own two cents. I'm a first generation immigrant to Canada from Taiwan when I was only 9 and I call myself the same thing JLin called himself, a Chinese Canadian from Taiwan. I think that we Chinese from Taiwan or Taiwanese for that matter identify ourselves different from the Chinese from Mainland (even though my grandparents are from there) it's because of how twisted the mainstream Mainland PRC culture have become...everyday you hear heart breaking stories about people who were abused by over-brazenly corrupted gov't down to a little girl getting ran over and no one lends a helping hand. Anyway, that's as far as I'll go in this "politically-controversial" issue. But with JLin, I think he's breaking all the stereotypes of Asian Americans and Asian Canadians for that matter, Go JLIN!!!
February 14, 2012 5:37 PM
@Anonymous 12.33 PM: Opinions are not facts, you say, yet you just share your opinion, your own perception (talking about a shot in your own knee). There are several historic facts regarding early male Chinese immigrants to Taiwan, who married with Austronesian aboriginal women. Do a research on your own. You can also read this post: Are We Chinese or Taiwanese?
@Anonymous 4:09PM: You're right - you have all the choice to identify as whoever you feel the most - it's your personal freedom. And so have other Taiwanese.
@Anonymous 5:37PM: You're similar to most of my friends, who say they're either Chinese or Taiwanese and have no problems with that. Indeed, let the man play!
February 14, 2012 10:12 PM
Ok. you could say that Lin's parent came from Taiwan before, but you must remember that Lin's parent's parent came from Fujian, China.
February 15, 2012 11:52 AM
Stop confusing people. Lin is american, he has nothing to do with Taiwan. His parents are from Taiwan. Period!!!!
February 15, 2012 12:07 PM
Why do you give a crap of which freaking country claiming him? He is an AMERICAN NBA BASKETBALL PLAYER!
All of ya get off his d**k and leave him the f alone to play ball. It's media and blogs like yours trying to put pressure on him.
February 15, 2012 1:42 PM
Shut up He's the pride of All asian ppl.
February 15, 2012 4:40 PM
When China stop aiming missles and claim Taiwan is part of "CHINA", I will start to think myself as a Chinese.
February 16, 2012 3:45 AM
When Taiwan stops trying to separate then there will be no need for missiles.
February 16, 2012 8:37 AM
A message to all Taiwanese, being ethnically Han Chinese does not mean that you are mainland, or a communist.
February 16, 2012 2:19 PM
He is a CHINESE AMERICAN from TAIWAN, that's the best way to describe it. There is no taiwanese-american
February 16, 2012 10:10 PM
@Anonymous: I guess these Americans would beg to differ: http://www.taiwaneseamerican.org
February 16, 2012 10:12 PM
It is unfortunate that Lin has become, quite unknowingly, the new symbol for the "Taiwanese, not Chinsese" movement. Those who wish to exploit his success to peddle their political ideologies should be ashamed of themselves.
February 17, 2012 7:42 AM
This spills over to Lin's Wikipedia page where there's an edit war about the entry of his ethnicity. For me, it raises the issue of identity and whether it's cultural, ethnic, race or nationality and I muse more at: http://whiffer-movies.blogspot.com/2012/02/chinese-american-or-taiwanese-american.html
Finally, it'll be interesting to compare press accounts from 23 years ago Michael Chang won the French Open. My impression that most of the press identified him as Chinese. Or at least, the Taiwanese community did not make a big deal. But then, Tiananmen Square happened around that time.
February 17, 2012 8:34 AM
Aww, people, come on, let the actually people who are living in PROC and ROC decide if they want to debate. Technically, no matter how long some of you guys have lived there, you aren't living there RIGHT NOW. And for some of the (not all) people that are arguing, please read the history textbooks thoroughly before debating. Taiwan and ROC are different things. Taiwan is the island's name. ROC is the governmental party. PROC and China are different things too. China is the landmass's name, and PROC is the governmental party. Please get these simple facts straight. And, if you say you're from Taiwan, you would definitely know that, since that's what the two parties there differ in.
February 17, 2012 1:21 PM
My parents are from Taiwan and I am proud of being Chinese,too.
February 17, 2012 6:53 PM
So according to your theory kemo, thousnd years ago Japanese and Korean were all from china, they should say they are Han chinese too? Wow, Chinese really wants everything hun
February 17, 2012 9:02 PM
Huh? I never say anything about Japanese and Korean are Han Chinese? All human come from Africa. I mentioned it clearly that Japanese and Korean culture have it's own origin.
February 17, 2012 11:42 PM
@A.L. - Its definitely interesting to see all the hullabaloo over Taiwanese vs Chinese identity that is generated with Jeremy Lin and not over Michael Chang.
I think that Tiananmen Square might have had a little to do with it, but there also seems to have been a bit more of a push in the past few years for Taiwanese people living in other countries to have a greater sense of nationalism and a greater awareness of some of the cultural difference.
Some of it also depends on the audience. I am Taiwanese, yes, grandparents were in china, but then one of my great grandparents was also aboriginal Taiwanese, so I am very proud to be Taiwanese.
That being said, if some octogenarian comes up to me and says, oh I love Thai food (yes its happened), i'm going to be nice and tell them the best Thai restaurants around. If they call me Chinese, whatever.
February 18, 2012 9:05 PM
Some idiot mentioned that his ancestors came from China like 300 years ago, so he's Chinese. Well even though I was born in Taiwan, my ancestors came from what is now Tanzania like 100,000 years ago. I guess I'm African.
February 19, 2012 12:38 AM
KML, I got question for you. Does Taiwanese refer themselves as 'Huaren'? In Malaysia and Singapore, when speaking in our own language be it Mandarin, Hokkien, Hakka or Hokkien, we refer each other as 'Huaren'.
February 19, 2012 1:18 PM
@Kemo: I've said it many times before, in my post:
who see themselves either as "Taiwanese" (台灣人) or "ethnic Chinese"(華人)
In the comments:
How many times did I mention, that only a small part of Taiwanese see this term [referring to 台灣人] as ethnicity, a vast majority refers to their ethnicity as 華人 or ethnic Chinese!
Read through again, what I said, before you ask the same question. I said I won't publish comments that keep repeating the same stuff. Since you're commenting more times a day here, I want to remind you once again, but this is the last time. It's all in the post and comments.
@To everybody: And let me be clear once again: I don't care what people in Taiwan identify as, it's their own choice. What I hate is when Chinese from China, Malaysia, USA or other countries get involved in the Taiwan identity issue, who had never come here, nor really understand Taiwan's past history and current changes. Like I said, things are complex in Taiwan, there are no easy answers and by saying "Taiwanese are Chinese" is as wrong as saying "Taiwanese see themselves different as Chinese". It's also not about stealing a culture, nor are Taiwanese per se "Anti-China" or "Anti-Chinese". They are smart enough to distinguish between people and government, between politics and reality. But they are still searching, their identity is constantly changing, evolving, becoming more diversified.
Please do not dumb down this complex issue to some platitudes based on your pan-Chinese ideology. Growing up in Taiwan is a completely different experience from growing up in China, Malaysia, Singapore or USA - it's a very distinct and particular experience and only those who grew up here can understand what that means.
If you're a Malaysian Chinese and proud Huaren 華人, that's great for you. But you are a second class citizen in your native country (in contrast to orang asli). I have lived in Malaysia, my ex is Malaysian Chinese, I know how you people think there. It's very different from Taiwanese. Your identity is clear, because you have to fight for your own culture's survival as a minority. You can't compare that to what Taiwanese went through in the past centuries (Dutch, Qing, Japanese, KMT white terror, Cold War, Communist threat, America's involvement etc.). Your history, your identity, your traditions are different. Of course there are similarities, but so are similarities between many other cultures and we still don't call them the same. Even the term Huaren 華人 has different connotations in Malaysia and Taiwan. Nothing's as easy as you want to see it.
And these are just few things I've listed. There is so much more to say, but I don't have the time, nor the energy to discuss this here.
So I'm going to close down this thread. No more comments. I've said what I had to say on the issue, so have you. Thank you.
February 19, 2012 1:53 PM
Post a Kafkaesque comment!