About obnoxious Western people in the Far East
And the racist media, that drives the stereotypes
I found this short video on YouTube of a bunch of young Americans (or were they Canadians?) taking the subway in Japan (most probably in Tokyo) and being noisy, pestering people around them and talking nonsense. Sorry to say to my American friends, but your reputation in East Asia is not good, especially in South Korea and parts of Japan (due to heavy military presence), China (political issues) and Taiwan (young expatriates). And Canadians are slowly catching up, because of some people who come to work as English teachers and get drunk one too many times or even get involved in fights or generally disrespect the local culture and women. And behavior like seen in the video doesn't help to improve the bad image, does it? Even, if you're just a visitor, a tourist, it doesn't give you the right to behave the way you do at home. But I guess some people just don't care. And then things like this happen and I'm not surprised at all.
Of course on the other side, there's also a lot of nationalism or racism in East Asian countries as well. Sometimes all foreigners from the West are lumped together and seen as "bad, arrogant, aloof, criminals, having no morals, disregarding the local culture etc." And it's not only driven by common people, but mostly by the media. It's a vicious circle and that's certainly not good for both sides. Europeans are still lucky, but that's because we're less known. We weren't really engaged in East Asia a lot in the past 50 years, be it militarily or as expatriate language teachers, like the current flock of young people, who most often come from USA, Canada and Australia. And believe me, we have some pretty obnoxious people in Europe, too.
With all that said, let me stress, that I do not believe (or try to imply here) that the majority of Americans and Canadians, who go to Asia, behave in a bad way (or that Europeans are better than them). I'm just talking about the stereotypes. Those who behave bad are in a big minority. And of course the media will rather drive (or blow up) the the story of a drunk foreign English teacher involved in a brawl rather than tell the stories of hundreds of polite foreigners, who respect the locals, speak their language and blend in perfectly. The media in the Far East, especially in South Korea, is constantly implying "that foreigners were going out there with the intent to make trouble..." (Metropolitician, 2008, Tips To Avoid Being Assaulted in Korea). Media making up or distorting a story about foreigners in East Asia is not a new thing and we (the foreigners) need to be very careful not to give them unneccessary material. And another thing I need to add: The White Westerners have it much easier in the Far East than those foreigners of African descent. I'm fully aware of that while writing this, but that's a whole 'nother topic. You can read more about that here.
When I'm in Asia, I try my best to represent my culture and my country well. I usually say I'm Slovenian or European (or both), depends on the situation. Sometimes I'm too tired to explain where Slovenia is, so I just say I'm from Europe. It's funny how people almost by default assume I was American. And if you read the paragraphs above, being seen as American in Asia is not always good. On the other hand, my girlfriend says I totally look "European" on the outside (whatever "looking European" is), and dress and behave like one (?). I wonder, what makes us Europeans so different from North Americans on the outside. Any ideas?
I must say, it's not only the bad reputation of Canadians and Americans in East Asia, that makes me stress my Slovenian and European heritage, but it's the pride of being who I am and where I come from and the fact, that we're still different, even though we're all Westerners. Even Americans and Canadians are different and don't want to be seen as same (even though they many times are seen as same). In the end, I hope people would be seen as the individuals they are and without prejudice or stereotypes, that are attached to the group they belong. Of course, that's wishful thinking, because foreigners face prejudice everywhere, in East Asia, in North America and also in Europe. That's why the struggle goes on. We'll need decades to really get to know each other well. But will we really get along and respect each other? I'm positive and I'll say eventually we will.
- What do you think about the people in the video?
- What are your thoughts on all the issues I pointed out?
37 KAFKAESQUE COMMENTS:
I think you should try to be an ambassador for your country whenever you go abroad and try to respect the countries customs and cultures.
Kinda sucks how in life, a few people spoil it for everybody...
July 7, 2010 4:15 PM
@Floating Camera: Yes, totally agree.
July 7, 2010 4:31 PM
ah the eternal "don't act like you're in your own country" issue... i think that when you're in a host country, you should try to immerse yourself in the local culture, habits and customs as much as you can instead of acting like you're home. it's just plain politeness towards the hosts and open-mindedness. from what i've experienced so far...the worst offenders are the brits and the americans.
i remember during my year abroad in paris, 99% of the female exchange students from the uk always wondered why frenchmen were leering at them and making salacious remarks and i was like that's because in france, women don't get drunk on friday afternoons at 2pm in anticipation of the weekend (seriously, after 5 years here, i'm still a bit surprised at how many ppl are drunk in the middle of the afternoon!) nor do they walk around in skimpy outfits in WINTER outside of pubs, bars and clubs (they'd rather spend the £2 coat fare on drinks) and yell "appele moi je suis chaude/call me i'm hot"!!
you make your bed, well don't complain, lie in it now!
July 7, 2010 4:56 PM
oh and about Lily's remark about behaving like a European? i've noticed that the continentals generally tend to be less crude than their british and american counterparts (can't talk about canadians, i've never observed them long enough at close quarters)...must be an anglo-saxon thing.
July 7, 2010 5:00 PM
@Kit: Very well said. The "drunk Brit" is an image I know from the media, but haven't experienced that first hand. But I'm sure it's pretty bad, Brits are notorious drinkers through out continental Europe, usually as tourists or when they come as football fans. It's rather sad indeed.
Regarding the Anglo-Saxon thing, I'm not sure, I'd need to research that.
July 7, 2010 5:04 PM
Well, you can ask me why I said you look like European, hehe. This conclusion is made from my mum and I, we both found the different features between European and American. But this conclusion doesn't suit any case, just our trifling observation. We found European's facial features are more meticulous, and so do the characters. And the way you dress and your manner, like a gentleman, very refined and courteous.
And although we didn't know any Americans before, but we watched a lot of American movies or dramas, we feel Americans are more casual, so do their way of dressing. They always dress simple T-shirt, with jeans or short khaki pans, and flip-flops (or CROCS shoes). And most of them don't care the status of their clothes, even some T-shirts look a bit old and shabby, they seems don't care. The facial features of Americans' are a bit softer, and a little hairy, some are a bit stout.
I should say this is just our trivial observations, can't be taken so seriously, k? Hope your Western followers won't be offended. ^^
July 7, 2010 5:23 PM
If you had a post names " Obnoxious yellow/yellow/black/Indian people in the West" it would be considered racist... this post makes it sound like you have something against being white, like you wish you were Asian.
Just my thoughts
July 7, 2010 6:13 PM
@Lily: Thanks for clarifying that. It's hard for me to observe myself, hehe.
@anonymous: I think since I'm White, I can write obnoxious White people, can't I? Have you even read my post? Have you read the part, where I mention "the pride of being who I am and where I come from"?
I have nothing against my own race or any race for that matter, I'm happy who I am. But I can critize the behavior of certain groups, especially the groups I supposedly belong to, be it White, Western, European or Slovenian. Guess you missed the point, cuz I've written a lot about the racist Far Eastern media, too. Frankly, I thought I'll be attacked for that, not for what you pointed out.
July 7, 2010 6:35 PM
I am extremely annoyed at foreigners, especially Americans, who come to the Philippines and think that they can treat all Filipinos the same way. They come here, talk to people and when they are frustrated that the people don't understand their American accents, they throw a fit and call us uneducated. I have seen so many rude Americans in malls, restaurants, bars, you name it, who are disrespectful of sales people, customer service reps etc. I mean, fuck off, assholes. Don't come here and expect all of us to treat you like kings.
Okay, that's my rant. I'm feeling better now.
July 7, 2010 7:43 PM
@Demigoddess: Wow, that's pretty bad.. Thanks for sharing.
July 7, 2010 7:49 PM
re: your comment to anonymous
someone once was so offended that I called myself yellow, but I do agree with you that being part of the 'yellow' group, I can matter of factly call us yellow. Something about bearing the racism against one's own race gives us the right to provide a little comic relief at our own expense. light comic relief, that's all. yellow is just a color after all.
July 7, 2010 10:11 PM
@Linda: Yea, I think I'd never call an Asian person yellow, but if Asians use that word for themselves, that's ok to me. I'd also never use the N-word for a black person, but it's common that African Americans use it among themselves. Well, I know that from rap music. It doesn't always make sense, but that's how it is. So I think, making fun or criticizing your own race should be ok and it doesn't mean you hate yourself. So silly. I like the Far East, yes, but that doesn't mean I'd like to be Asian, haha. I am who I am, I'm happy who I am. I'm white, my mum, my sisters, all are white... Race is given and it should not define us, right? It's part of our identity, but it's not everything who we are. I try my best to bridge the gap between East and West and sometimes I think you need to say things bluntly, while still not being offensive, just realistic.
July 7, 2010 10:18 PM
well, not all travellers behave like them ya, and the japanese will just think they are simply great as they speak goog english :) or just simply they are WHITE... yeah not only the westerners but everyone, when you tarvel around, behave yourself, i see many westerners throw the rubbish everywhere (this might because they just behave like what the local does) then the local would say, see the westerners throw rubbish too... (without checking out their nationalities as they may from latin america or australia or...) or when the asian people go to europe, not all of them are from china, but when the Asian did something wrong, the european will just say, that fella from china had done blablabla... ><
July 7, 2010 10:53 PM
OH Those idiots have got to be American! jk jk...they could be Canadians of course.
Honestly, the people in the video are young - I'd say in their 20s. A lot of people in their 20s act stupid still....those that prefer to tape themselves and post it on youtube are at an even lower level of intelligence. That's exactly why almost all my friends are over the age of 30. Of course, I have my moments of sillyness but I don't pester people or make hurtful comments.
I know what you mean about people in Asia started to have general bad sentiment towards Americans and now more so Canadians. A couple of my friends went to Thailand earlier this year - one of them is a caucasian Canadian fellow. He said a lot of Thai people are viewing Canadian/American men poorly there because they act so arrogant and full of themselves because they think they are rich there. Like he said, anyone with a couple of thousand CDN to throw around is rich there because your money goes so far. And it's really too bad that a few rotten apples spoil the rest of us good ones so to speak. But even my condo, I was one of the first people to move in here and after, it started to get filled up mainly by Asian immigrants from Hong Kong or China...most of them my age too since I'm guessing they have student visas. Anyways, they are so darn rude. It's disgusting really. I moved from an affluent area here to my condo and I can't stand it. The previous place I came from was mainly older caucasians. So how does that make me feel? Well now I'm biased against people from mainland China and Hong Kong. It's only natural because of what I get exposed to here in my own condo building. It also doesn't help that my two sisters who stopped over in China two years ago got extremely rude treatment from the people there and my sisters refuse to travel to China anytime soon. And even worse, I'm Asian too so if you look at me and look at another Asian they'll probably assume I'm just as rude if they don't get to know me. I understand that in China and Hong Kong you may have to be a bit pushy to get around (I heard they don't line up at banks - they shove each other to get to a teller) but the issue I have with those type of people is that they don't adopt the lifestyle and culture of the country they immigrate too. Like I want to tell some of them, "Listen, maybe in your country you press the close door button on the elevator when you see someone coming to the elevator. But here, you politely keep the elevator door open if you see someone approaching the elevator and you're already in the elevator".
July 7, 2010 10:53 PM
Anyways you said it well - the only thing you can to help stop the stereotype is to represent your country as best you can when you're abroad. And just in everyday life too - like common sense stuff like being considerate and polite. It never hurts anyone.
As a Canadian, I feel we are very different from Americans (as you pointed out thank you!). Even different parts of USA are so different. Like I wouldn't want to travel alone to say some of their Southern States but that's a different story. I get a bit offended when people consider Canadians and Americans the same - just like how you didn't understand people mixing up Slovenia and Slovakia. And Europeans are very different from Canadians/Americans. Mostly culture, mentality, education and even how they look in terms of facial features (not skin colour). As you pointed out as well, countries in Europe differ from one another so vastly sometimes. It's hard for me to comment exactly why so in a blogger comment. Put it this way, almost all my close friends were born and raised in another country overseas. Their mentality and way of life is different than mine and I was born and raised in Canada. They have assimilated into Canadian culture but it's not quite the same as mine. In my case they all had a much better disciplined education, their struggles in life were different for political reasons...etc...I don't even know if I'm making sense LOL
Maybe in Asia people assume you're American because there's way more American tourists than European? Perhaps also, in Asia there aren't many caucasian people in general so many of them cannot distinguish between an American/Canadian/European because of lack of exposure - what do you think?
Woah, next time I have a comment that long I should email you!!! LOL
July 7, 2010 10:54 PM
@fufu: Yes, I wrote that in my post. Those who behave bad are in a minority, I stressed that. But usually people remember those, right? Who will come home and say: Oh, I saw 20 foreigners in the train, who sat there quietly. People will only remember stuff like: I saw 3 noisy and obnoxious foreigners today... It's sad, but it's the truth. And same goes for Europe.
I remember in Malaysia, my ex's sister drove me to JB and I saw her throwing rubbish through the window. I was shocked first and didn't want to do the same, even though she asked me. But 3 months later in Malaysia I allowed her to take my trash and throw out. I guess if Malaysians saw me doing that, I would be "a bad foreigner" :P Or maybe a good Malaysian? Lol. Kidding obviously. I know what you mean.
July 7, 2010 11:19 PM
hi, I found ur blog by ur gf's recommendation in one forum, and I like ur blog. I like ur observations and ideas when foreigners exposing to different cultures, and finally I decide to share some of mine with u. Once I traveled in New York staying in a hostel, one roommate living with me from Argentina talked with me, and we share the same opinion about that most American people never travel, they only visit relatives, and she told me American usually do not know where other countries locate...In my opinion, there are still many friendly American people; however, they are not like european countries having chances to exchange with other countries conveniently, and many American only speak English, those factors make it possible that American people give local people impressions of being arrogant or disrespectful. There is another experience when I was in America, I found that I can easily talk with foreigners traveling or working in America, however, it is not always the case talking with American people especially when they found my english is not very fluently even when I tried to help American tourists with my information.
July 7, 2010 11:38 PM
@Karen: I think in South East Asia it's worse than East Asia when it comes to bad behavior of some Westerners. So many average joes think they're rich men and can get every girl with little money. And sadly, in some places it works, but not everywhere. When it comes to Thailand, there are many Europeans, who fit in the same pattern. When it comes to East Asia, it's different. Koreans, Japanese and Taiwanese are wealthy, they won't fall for the "rich Westerner" routine that easy. The foreigners-locals relations are a bit more complex there and I tried to focus only on East Asia here. But of course you made a good point with your story from Thailand, I guess people there are slowly getting fed up with arrogant tourists.
In case of the Asians who live in your condos, I think it may be their culture and the willingness not to adapt to a new one. It's basically the same what I described in my post about obnoxious White people in Asia, just the roles are exchanged. Of course again, these people are in minority, but such behavior is equally bad. In Europe there are many foreigners from that South Western part of Asia, who don't adapt to our way of life and makes it sometimes very difficult to coexist. We can only hope things will get better one day.
July 7, 2010 11:45 PM
@Anonymous: Thanks for stopping by. Your story is interesting. The thing about America is that there's many regions, you don't have the Amercian, there's many types of Americans. In Europe, we usually think those living in the East Coast (Boston, NY etc.) and those in the West Coast (Seattle, San Francisco, LA) are more or less like we are (although how are Europeans really is a whole 'nothher thing), while all the people living in between, the so called Midwest, are very different than us. I guess they travel less, speak less foreign languages, are more pro Republican and also travel less. Of course that's just a guess, not everyone's like that, but let's say that's the trend. Like Karen said, Americans are very different regionally, it's hard to really define "a typical American". Mostly it's us outside America, who draw stereotypes of them, which usually don't really relate to actual Americans. But which stereotypes are true anyway? Of course there's a lot of truth in your personal experiences and it's good that you (like me) differentiate between the various types. But I agree, the language barrier is most often the main reason for misunderstandings and bad experiences. I wish people would speak more languages. In this regard, Europe could be a role model (minus England and France, that is) :)
July 7, 2010 11:56 PM
Obviously I agree with everyone and the trick is to be polite and learn the local customs. Nobody will chop you're head of for adding an extra please.
With that being said, people would welcome tourists not hate on them. I'm not american, but sometimes I get annoyed at other Europeans for being so judgemental and critical of visitors. Yes it's annoying to get cught behind a group of Japenese people who have to take a picture of every single cloud, building and bird when you are in hurry and they are blocking you -- but get over it! I think American's especially are getting a lot of flack, yes they are loader then we are - but so are Brazilian, Spaniards and many more. Let's not forget tourism is a big business and these people are leaving a lot of money in you country.
As comment to Kit comment, yes those woman are putting themselves in a position to get that kind of attention, but if I'm drunk at 2PM and wearing a short dress that does not mean males can shout and talk dirty to me. Seriously, woman shouldn't be respected when they wear skimpy clothes? What kind of dangerous attitude is that? When I lived in Spain, the way they walk to us woman, blonde woman, is disgusting. I don't care what I'm wearing, it's not OK for them to talk to me like that.
At Linda's comment on the yellow thing, I don't like that. Same with the so called n word, either everyone can say it - or no one can. If everyone is equal, the everyone should have access or be denied access to the same vocabulary. Also I think when you have words like that which can only be used in certain groups then you are giving the word power. After all, yellow is just color, same as white or olive. It's descriptive.It is after all "just a word". If everybody and anybody could use it, then it would become neutral.
July 8, 2010 2:10 AM
@Carina: Kit meant those drunk women in mini skirts in winter, who are totally wasted at 2pm and drag themselves on the streets. Now I agree that being obscene is never good, but you can't say that those women's behavior is normal. Especially if they're annoying and disturbing other sober people. I would seriously have a hard time to respect such a woman. And I'd not do anything, just pass by and think: "Oh boy, that's some shameful behavior."
You're right about the racial slurs. The N-word also comes from the word "negro", which means "black" in Spanish, it's also descriptive. But it's the history behind these names that give it such strong meaning, they way the words were used by people to humiliate Africans in the past. "Yellow" in this regard does not bear such a strong meaning like the N-word, but I'd still not use it. I don't like to use racial slurs in general. And one more thing: People are different and if laws say we're equal, it doesn't mean we're all same and have same feelings regarding certain things. Being black or white in America is a different thing, you see reality with different eyes, even though both are Americans and have a lot in common.
July 8, 2010 2:26 AM
@ MKL: I know woman like that can be annoying, my point is just that thought this might be the case, and they're drunk looking slutty that doesn't give anyone the right to make salacious remarks at them.
July 8, 2010 2:33 AM
I can sort of understand why our reputation (or to be more exact, White American reputation) as a whole is bad in East Asia and everywhere else, including Europe, if that matters. The worse group of Americans have got to be our military. Wherever they're stationed, they get drunk, they get into fights, they create chaos, etc...But it's also something of a fact that the majority of those in our military are from the redneck South. That's according to my dad who served in the U.S. military in the past. He approximated that about 70% of those in the military were Southerners and y'know...Southerners have a bad reputation even here in the U.S. But consequently, people eventually get an image that our military represents all of us, no matter what race we were. My dad said he was mainly stationed in Europe but some of the Europeans shouted at him to "Go home, Yankee!" even though he was Asian and not white :/ Again though, nobody can really blame them for that since our military does create trouble wherever they go...
July 8, 2010 2:42 AM
Oh heavens... every generation produces its stereotypes doesn't it. As you say, the media soon picks up on an incident and it becomes common currency, then we all get tarred with the same brush.
In the past it was marauders, conquering armies, now it is the exposure of undesirable behaviours with all the fast communication systems we have picking up every nuance.
There is a saying, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". This should be a mantra to follow for all visits to other people and nations.
The trouble is, MKL, other sides, local misbehaviours are ignored, and these are equally as valid for censure.
The majority of visitors to the UK are excellent,sadly, some are here for other reasons, not reasons that we condone.
July 8, 2010 3:52 AM
it's always that few bad eggs that make everyone look bad! Like I have a bad view for chinese fobs here cuz they got bad manners etc but that's cuz all the ones that I notice are ones that bug me (ie microwave fish at work, talk really loud while chewing in the cafteria etc) but yeah I know what you mean!
July 8, 2010 3:59 AM
@Carina: I totally agree with that.
@Van: You have a good point. I've never really thought about which part of USA most soldiers come from. Interesting. Thanks for enlightening us.
@ZACL: Very well said and "when in Rome do like Romans do" is one of the best sayings there is.
@Julie: Oh, I've read stuff about American born Asians and so called "fobs" and I'm planning to write about that some time in the future. But you make a great point here.
July 8, 2010 5:00 AM
my comment's going to be the shortest one:
what's the video is all about.
and therefore i'm officially a bimbo today. yay.
July 8, 2010 6:06 AM
@Ejann: Haha.. thanks for the short comment. I was already tired debating :P No idea, what the video's about, who could understand that? +_+
July 8, 2010 8:02 AM
I chose not to read everybody else's comments because they are-- well, long. Hehe. But I have to agree that no one has the right to treat other people with disrespect. I hate racism. That's all.
This post is awesomely badass!!!
July 8, 2010 9:40 AM
Such ignorant people! I think there are such tourist everywhere and of all nationalities... There are people that when being in other countries, they take liberties and behave like assholes. I believe racism is the biggest idiocy ever!
July 9, 2010 2:46 AM
@Gnetch: Thanks :)
@Daisy: Yes, they're everywhere. What can we do, ah? Keep fighting for the truth.
July 9, 2010 4:35 AM
As long as there are people who fight ignorance with words or writings, there will be hope...
July 9, 2010 4:37 AM
@Daisy: Haha.. that was a quick reply. :P And yeah, I totally agree.
July 9, 2010 4:38 AM
I couldn't agree with you more, you raised an excellent and sensitive point but dealt with it so smoothly. I spent a year in China and the sheer amount of times people would refuse to interact with me or would not be friendly just because I was a Westerner got to be extremely disheartening. Not necessarily that they thought I was American (although, they do tend to have that "reputation" everywhere in the world, even in Europe!), just that some Chinese people had automatically lumped me into a negative category based on the ignorance of a small minority. It's a pity really...
July 9, 2010 6:51 AM
@Luke: Thank you. I tried to be careful, but also blunt, it's a fine line, though. I've never been to China, only Taiwan and lucky for me, I had no negative experiences there, usually people were curious and stared, but Taiwanese are very friendly and polite, I think it's very different from China. Maybe the only country in the Far East, that sees Americans as valuable allies. But the young English teachers from USA and Canada have a bad reputation already. It's rather sad.
July 9, 2010 6:56 AM
As far as I can remember I have written about this before as well. Personally I believe in "live and let live". It's okay to behave different, as long as you don't disturb your neighbor.
That being said I don't think the ladies in the video are trouble at all. Sure they are loud, but then the metro is loud anyways, so who cares.
Yes, when I go to another country I learn about it's customs before. At the same time I also want to be true to myself. The question is, what is acceptable and what is to much.
A major part of the problem is, Asia is not really used to Westerners and the language barrier doesn't really help either. So there are a lot of prejudices on all sides.
By the way, when I see Chinese people here in Germany, then they refer to Germans as "laowai" (when talking in Chinese). That's pretty insulting, but I don't care, because I have better things to do than scolding them. It's not worth my time.
July 10, 2010 11:00 PM
@Junjie: Sure, it's ok to be different, even the East Asians themselves are very different, especially when you compare their young and old people. But sometimes you see a guy who looks like a punk, but he won't make noise in the subway or pester the people around him, he will still bow in front of elders etc... I generally don't like noisy people in planes, trains and buses, so for me those in the video were annoying. They may not be for some.
July 10, 2010 11:56 PM
Post a Kafkaesque comment!