Wednesday, November 18, 2009

My difficulties when learning Chinese

A simple explanation of my initial struggles


I'm practicing Chinese again and I want to talk about the difficulties I'm encountering in the process. Me and Shirley have been tweeting about who speaks better Chinese, but it's quite hard to say at this point, because I don't really know how good she speaks and she doesn't know how good I speak.

I can say I'm a beginner. I never really studied Chinese: I mean going to a course, pass tests and sticking my head in books for hours. Nope. Some 3 years ago my ex started to teach me few phrases, but I really learned the most during my few months long stay in Malaysia this year, because I lived with a Chinese family. I listened to them and repeated it and if I mispronounced, they corrected me. I also learned a lot from kids and TV, because they always watched Taiwanese shows. But I also had a small notebook, where I would write down some phrases and learned them by heart. The last thing that helped me to improve my Chinese, especially the written one, was when I got my Nokia from Malaysia, that allows me to switch from English to Chinese when writing text messages. I learned so many Chinese characters that way and I'm now able to write a good text message in Chinese. [*Yay!]

Here's the things I learned in the process:

1. Chinese can't be translated 1 to 1 into English. I had to learn how Chinese would say it, not how I would say it.
2. Basic Chinese is easy to master, but the advanced one is very complicated
3. It is easier to understand spoken Chinese than speaking it yourself
4. It is easier to read written Chinese than writing it yourself
5. The hardest thing to learn for a non-Chinese are the 4 tones, still giving me headaches

Nevertheless, I'm not discouraged. It's hard, yes, but it is doable. But then, when I thought things are going fine, there's another thing: Traditional Chinese. For me simplified Chinese was already hard, but I got a grip of it. But Traditional seems like a whole new language. This difference only applies to writing the Chinese characters: Traditional has more strokes and it's therefore harder to draw. Mainland China, Malaysia and Singapore use simplified Characters, while Hong Kong and Taiwan use traditional. See few examples for yourself:

gè: classifier for people - SC: 个 TC: 個
huì: will (future tense) - SC: 会 TC: 會
kāi: open - SC: 开 TC: 開
guǎng: wide - SC: 广 TC: 廣
tǐ: body - SC: 体 TC: 體


So now you see that I am indeed very poor, but I'm still eager to learn. First of all: I have a great teacher. And secondly: I have plans for next year, where my Chinese knowledge will be of essence. I'm happy that I'm able to understand basic questions and tell something about myself, plus I can utter something very silly and make people laugh. That's ok for now, but I need to advance and learn more words and phrases, if I want to live in a Chinese environment again. So wish me good luck!

Those of you who learned (or are learning) Chinese, what difficulties did you encounter?

35 KAFKAESQUE COMMENTS:

Shingo T said...

There are way too many Chinese characters. I still have problem reading and writing some of the words. Speaking is so much easier.

I'm always impressed with angmohs who can speak Chinese. Work hard, you can do it! ^_^

November 18, 2009 10:00 PM  

Stefanie said...

Me,Chinese educated.

November 18, 2009 10:28 PM  

MKL said...

Shingo T

Well, I do put my stress on speaking, but at one point I need to learn reading and writing, too. Thank you!~ I will do my best.

Stefanie

Proud to be your friend :)

November 18, 2009 10:42 PM  

Roxy. said...

Wow, Chinese is one of the hardest languages to learn. I am really impressed. I learned mandarin as my second mother tongue and i was really happy during my O levels that i got a C6.
And of course, i am glad that Singapore is using simplified Chinese instead of the traditional Chinese. I will prolly die with the more strokes needed to write for each character.
Oh yes, Mandarin characters is also used for dialects. So maybe after learning your Chinese, you can try learning Cantonese, Hokkien and such. :D
Good luck for your Chinese. (:

November 18, 2009 10:42 PM  

MKL said...

Roxy.

Ah, yea, I can feel you on that one. I'm also fan of simplified, hehe. As for learning dialects... I don't know. If I master Mandarin, it will be a huge accomplishment, I better stick to it :) Thank you~~

November 18, 2009 10:48 PM  

The Envoy said...

I struggle with writing systems other than alphabetical ones...however, like many others I pick up spoken languages more easily.

November 18, 2009 11:06 PM  

Manju said...

just started a course. we've only done pronunciation and simple phrases yet.piece of cake till now^^ writing is looks sooooo difficult!
are you going to Asia next year??

November 19, 2009 1:11 AM  

MKL said...

The Envoy

Good for you. So are you fluent in Mandarin?

Manju

Yes, speaking is ok, if you have a good teacher :) Well, yes, most likely I will be in Asia in few months, teehee... :PP

November 19, 2009 1:14 AM  

adamantixx said...

i'm very impressed that you even dare to tackle Chinese, i never got any further than basic French!

November 19, 2009 2:21 AM  

MKL said...

adamantixx

You know I am fascinated by the Far east and I was always dreaming of mastering either Chinese, Japanese or Korean. Well, so far I fared best with Chinese and hope I can advance it further :)

November 19, 2009 3:20 AM  

Toothfairy said...

I've learned the traditional version in Chinese school every saturday from the age of 8 till 18. I was quite good in all, but after those 10 years, I dropped it and focused on uni. Now I can only write very basic characters, but the speaking is ok-ish, Cantonese is way better than Mandarin, but I can hold a basic conversation and dental related ones. And I can still read a lot. Not long and difficult newspaper articles but websites, blogs, magazines and all is fine. And I've learned myself to read both traditional and simplified characters.


I think you're pretty good at it, esp. for a 鬼老 :P


loves

November 19, 2009 6:22 AM  

the girl in stiletto said...

i dont know how to speak chinese full stop. im such a nerd that im no good in language. AT ALL.

November 19, 2009 6:30 AM  

Min Min said...

If you are keen to learn how to write Chinese characters, try out this - Learn a Chinese Character a Day @ www.learnchineseeveryday.com.

November 19, 2009 2:40 PM  

LilyChen said...

If I don't read this post, I can't imagine how hard the Chinese language to the foreigners.

Really so hard?

I don't know...but I agree that learning new language is not easy and need to stick on it for a long time.

As to the pronunciation, I think the trill is also hard for Chinese people, because we don't have trill pronunciation.
My tongue is not so nimble, thus I admire people who can trill!

November 19, 2009 2:48 PM  

ÅnGe|e said...

I took Mandarin classes in primary school but I was so lame at learning the language that I quit after some time. I remember that the language was so difficult to grasp T_T
Today I barely recall my Mandarin lessons. I know the basics like : hello, thank you... ect but that's it!

November 19, 2009 4:09 PM  

MKL said...

Shirley

Ok, now I can say it out: Your Chinese is waaaaaay better than mine, haha. Please don't compare yourself to me :P I'm such a newbie. You're excellent!

Ejann

Ah, well, you speak Malay and English, right? That's not bad :P

Min Min

No thanks. I have an excellent teacher :-)

Lily Chen

Yes, it's hard, Lily. Because it's a whole different concept of writing and pronouncing, but it's still possible to learn. I will try my best and my teacher is very smart. I'm confident.

Angele

I guess our level is similar, hehe.

November 19, 2009 6:24 PM  

The Envoy said...

I do understand it and am able to converse in Mandarin and Cantonese.

November 20, 2009 6:31 PM  

MKL said...

The Envoy

Good for you. Hope to talk with you in Mandarin one day :)

November 20, 2009 6:41 PM  

Techna said...

Hey there, I'm Indian and I do Tamil as my mother tongue, in fact I majored in it, in college education. I also did Mandarin as my third language:)

I guess it comes well with practice, I'd suggest you watch dramas with subtitles as well as try to learn 10 new characters a day :)

November 21, 2009 11:43 AM  

LaiSan said...

I speak mainly Cantonese, but have picked up a few Mandarin over the years through media. Still not fluent, as I have no one to speak Mandarin with!

As for writing, I prefer traditional Chinese to simplified. As a child, the characters used to fascinate me, I would ask all the time, how is this character formed and sound? And why does it sound or mean different when another character merges with it? Like: 雨 (rain), 雲 (cloud), 電 (electricity). Sometimes, these questions would annoy my ma, as she didn't know the answer. Ma is also very good at telling stories, as to how some characters are formed.

Oh, and as for my blog? I tend to blog in Cantonese or as my ma calls it, "白話", meaning spoken. :)

But good luck with your Mandarin! Once you're done with Mandarin, maybe you can learn Cantonese and then you'll understand my blog. :p

November 21, 2009 5:29 PM  

MKL said...

Techna

Oh nice, you speak Tamil :) You must be from Singapore, right? :) Well, thanks for your advice, so far I haven't studied on a daily base, but I will do so soon. And yea, I watched some drama, hehe. Thanks ;)

LaiSan

Well, it's funny, but everyone who learns traditional Chinese prefers it over simplified. Well, sure, if I master that, I'd also prefer it. It won't be easy, but I will do it. Some characters I already know, but some are totally new to me. And yes, I'm also fascinated with the history and etymology of the Chinese words, but first I need to speak fluently and read. I hope to learn writing in the end :)

Ah, I don't know, if I'll ever learn Cantonese, that would be waaay to hard for me and I'd need a good reason to master that :) I hope when my Mandarin improves, that I can read your blog, hehe.

November 21, 2009 6:55 PM  

LaiSan said...

I love the tones of Mandarin, it's a bit like French, the way the words just roll of the tongue gracefully.

Cantonese has a more harsher tone to it and in some ways sounds a bit like German. Whenever I'm on the 'phone to my ma, colleagues would be concerned that we're arguing! Haha..

I would love to be able to practice Mandarin!

Hmm..Talking of dramas, I feel like watching DBY or WWL again! :)

November 21, 2009 7:09 PM  

MKL said...

LaiSan

Yes, the tones are great, it makes Mandarin very melodic. And all the Mandarin speakers I met, they all say Cantonese sounds rough, hehe. Well, it does, haha. I can even imitate it, hehe. But when I was in HK and watched some TV in the hotel, I saw they have such great songs in Cantonese, I think it's also very good for singing. Right? :)

November 21, 2009 8:43 PM  

Techna said...

Yes! I'm Singapore... which made my journey in learning Mandarin much easier than it would have beeN!!!!

November 21, 2009 9:34 PM  

Ying Zi said...

Haha,I got a feeling that you might be learning the older chinese characters,and plus you've been in Malaysia.

What am I talking about? I'm confused too =.=

Okay,what I'm saying is that,the Chinese words that you just showed was called 'fan ti zi',it means a longer/older version of Chinese with more strokes in it. Taiwan are still using them whereas China and Singapore have been using 'Jian ti zi',a newer version with lesser strokes in them and makes it easier to write.

December 13, 2009 11:22 AM  

Ying Zi said...

Oh yes,so sorry. I seen that they have already explained to you about the traditional and simplified version of Chinese. Each word has their own story and meaning,I'd love to teach you one day if you require any help ;)

December 13, 2009 11:25 AM  

MKL said...

@Techna: I see..

@Ying Zi: Yes, I know the difference between Traditional (old) Chinese characters and the Simplified (newer) Chinese characters, that was the main point of my post, hehe. I know I have to learn more strokes, it's definitely a challenge. But I can master it. Thanks for your lovely comments.

December 13, 2009 6:45 PM  

Kit said...

Started learning mandarin this year and it's hard! The tones are alright, pinyin is ok-ish but writing characters is the hardest. They still look like pretty characters to me XD I've given up on writing.

Apparently BLCU has a good immersion programme as well as shanghai. I'm giving BLCU a shot in 2012 =p

December 14, 2009 5:09 AM  

MKL said...

@Kit: For me the tones are the hardest and I need a Chinese environment to fix that. As for pinyin and the characters, it's easier for me. We'll see how it goes for us. Maybe one day we can chat in Mandarin, hehe :)

December 14, 2009 5:56 AM  

Anonymous said...

I don't agree with what you describe as "never really studied Chinese". I think simple communication and interaction is the best way to learn any language. That's how most of us learn to speak our mother tongues, right?

December 18, 2009 1:43 AM  

MKL said...

@Anonymous: Yes, you're right. But I do like to study grammar and some other rules, because I studied languages at the university and I feel it's an integral part of learning a language. However, the real deal is real life interaction, in this case with Chinese people.

December 18, 2009 1:48 AM  

Joanne said...

I could understand why Mandarin is hard for non-Chinese to master. Basically, the difficulty lies within the four tones.

As you know, I'm a Chinese. However, due to the fact that I'm more "English-prone", I can't say that I'm proficient in Chinese. One of the easiest way to learn the language is through Chinese songs. You might find the lyrics blended with a little proportion of other languages such as English, Korean, Japanese and dialects.

加油!有志者事竟成!
(Chin up! If there's a will, there will be completion.)

December 27, 2010 5:44 PM  

MKL said...

@Joanne: Yes, I sometimes listen to some songs in Mandarin, like to Jolin, but haven't really used it to study. I plan to put some Chinese voice files in my phone and listen to them. Thank you for the encouragements. You're sweet.

December 27, 2010 9:07 PM  

Anonymous said...

关于你的贴我觉得都你写的是真的!我也是学习中文的外国人,觉得中文就是又很美丽又很有意思的语言啦。但是。。。如果你在说关于人,应该用”位“比”个“吧?

March 13, 2011 1:23 PM  

MKL said...

@Anonymous: 我問了我的朋友,他說「位」是比較尊敬的說法,通常用在稱呼別人的時候使用,例如這「位」先生、這「位」小姐;但是計算的時候,用「個」來當作計算單位才是正確的。

March 13, 2011 11:25 PM  


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